Fitter Food Radio: Episode 100

We’re so thrilled to have reached 100 episodes of Fitter Food Radio, our fortnightly health and fitness podcast.

To mark this special occasion in this latest episode we reflect on our journey in the health industry and share 3 things which we believe are essential on your own healthy journey.

Listen below or head to iTunes for the full episode.


Fitter Food Radio: Episode 100 – 3 things you need on your health journey [TRANSCRIPT]

Matt Whitmore: How are we doing, guys? It’s Matt Whitmore here, one half of Fitter Food. This is Fitter Food Radio, and I’m of course here with the one and only [Keris 00:00:14] Marsden, Wha gwan.

Keris Marsden: Wha Gwan.

Matt Whitmore: It’s a milestone episode.

Keris Marsden: It is indeed.

Matt Whitmore: We finally made it for yous. Episode 100 is upon us.

Keris Marsden: Fourth time, lucky.

Matt Whitmore: Yeah, four attempts in. We were really struggling to get our schedules to meet and the last one we done was at nine o’clock at night, and I think we were both knackered. Dedicated a whole hour and a half to it and we were like maybe …

Keris Marsden: We were a bit tired.

Matt Whitmore: Yeah, a bit brain dead and maybe it wasn’t the best time. We should do it a bit earlier in the day, whilst fuelled on caffeine and sunshine, because the sun is shining here in Tunbridge Wells and we’re giving it a go again.

Keris Marsden: I think the podcast has got to be up there with our top five most argued about things, don’t you reckon?

Matt Whitmore: What do you mean?

Keris Marsden: As in terms of what we bicker about the most. It’s the podcast. That can always send us into … I know it doesn’t sound like it, maybe to you guys, but we disagree on topic and then we disagree on whether it was good or bad, or whether it worked well, and we’ve got totally different perceptions of whether it was a good episode or not, haven’t we?

Matt Whitmore: Yes, quite funny, because it’s like, obviously, for a podcast to be a goer, it’s like, we ideally want to be, “Oh, that was a good one, wasn’t it?” Whereas the worst is when one of you is like, “Oh, that was really good, wasn’t it?” And the other one’s like, “Mmmm.” And then you’re like, “Oh.” And then they start almost persuading you that it wasn’t a very good episode, and then you’re like, “I should just do it again, then.”

Matt Whitmore: So that’s our excuse. If we went with every podcast first time round, we’d have about 500.

Keris Marsden: We’d have about 300.

Matt Whitmore: That’s really good.

Keris Marsden: But yeah, we would have. But we sit there and go, “I don’t think I said the right thing, or I think I was just too tired.” Also, I’ve noticed, listening to other people podcasts as well, where you hear people make mistakes about … Like, I listen to a lot of nutrition ones, and they say this enzyme, when they meant that enzyme, or this hormone; they meant that hormone.

Keris Marsden: And sometimes I’ve spoke to people about it, and they said, “Oh, do you know what? I just let it go. You know, I’m just on a roll and I’m talking.”

Matt Whitmore: Just hope no one’s gonna pull you up on it.

Keris Marsden: But I’m terrible. I’ll be like, “No, I said the wrong hormone. It’s gotta go.”

Matt Whitmore: Yeah, gotta do the whole thing again.

Keris Marsden: Yeah, basically.

Matt Whitmore: For that two-second bit that we now can’t find.

Keris Marsden: So podcasts, alongside, I would say, dishwasher, your shoes everywhere, your gym kit everywhere, is up there. That’s four things we bicker about the most.

Matt Whitmore: What do you mean everywhere? What is this, gang up on Matt…

Keris Marsden: No, no, no, I’m just thinking- [crosstalk 00:02:41].

Matt Whitmore: Let’s celebrate episode 100, a list of the things that annoy me about Matt.

Keris Marsden: No, but when people say, “Oh, you guys get on so well. How do you work together?” And we do, in every sense. I don’t know why I’m not bored of you yet. It’s short of a miracle. I’ve never spent this much time with one person and not got bored of them. I guess I still look forward to seeing you every single day.

Matt Whitmore: Aww, babe.

Keris Marsden: But yeah, in terms of things we bicker about, the podcast is definitely one.

Matt Whitmore: We do bicker about stupid things, which is nice, I guess. It’s better to have really silly problems than proper problems.

Keris Marsden: No, I agree.

Matt Whitmore: Like the other day, you went absolutely mental because I used the last of the almond milk.

Keris Marsden: Yeah, but you’ve done it again today. I look forward to my porridge. This is like Love Island and the toastie haha.

Matt Whitmore: Oh yeah.

Keris Marsden: Like, I look forward to it and it’s a little bit of almond milk makes it really creamy.

Matt Whitmore: It does. You should buy more, then.

Keris Marsden: Oh, God, don’t. Don’t even start. And the reason we argue about almond milk is I just have a little bit on my porridge, couple of times a week. And you drink pints of the stuff, and I can’t keep up. And I’ll buy it and buy it and buy it, and I’ll go to the fridge and it’s gone, because you drink pints of the stuff. You drink a pint in your smoothie, or whatever.

Keris Marsden: So I think you should take control of almond milk supply in the household. I think it’s only right that you drain it, just like I cover peanut butter and almond butter.

Matt Whitmore: Okay.

Keris Marsden: That’s my role, because I nailed it, basically. And dark chocolate is my role. But I nail it, so I know when we’re getting short.

Matt Whitmore: Sorry.

Keris Marsden: Coffee’s equal.

Matt Whitmore: I’ll do better.

Keris Marsden: Coffee’s equal. We share the coffee responsibility. We-

Matt Whitmore: We never run out of coffee, that’s for sure. It’s like when I used to work in W.H.Smiths, back in the day, and they had a system, and I’m sure like every retail place has this system, that-

Keris Marsden: Stock get low-

Matt Whitmore: When stocks is a certain number, it will automatically reorders. We’re like that. And so down to the last three bags of coffee. We’re like, “Oh, quick!”

Keris Marsden: But to be fair- [crosstalk 00:04:28].

Matt Whitmore: Get another order in.

Keris Marsden: The only thing that you are like that with is coffee, whey protein, creatine, and Vitamin D. That’s the only thing you go, like, “Oh, it’s getting low. I need to order some more.”

Matt Whitmore: Things that really matter.

Keris Marsden: Whereas my list is like, salad, carrots, broccoli sprouts.

Matt Whitmore: Carrots, jeez louise.

Keris Marsden: Multivitamins.

Matt Whitmore: We won’t go into that.

Keris Marsden: Magnesium.

Matt Whitmore: Anyway, guys, it’s episode 100. Milestone. We thought, “What should we talk about?” And I know in episode 99, we said we were gonna talk about fasting, different forms of, pros, cons, et cetera, et cetera.

Matt Whitmore: But Keris made a very good point that we are Fitter Food. We can’t celebrate episode 100 by talking about not eating.

Keris Marsden: Not eating.

Matt Whitmore: And I was like, “You’re absolutely right. I don’t know what I was thinking.” [crosstalk 00:05:15].

Keris Marsden: Too sad.

Matt Whitmore: So we figured- [crosstalk 00:05:18].

Keris Marsden: And I love food. Just gotta say that.

Matt Whitmore: I do. I think it’s amazing. [crosstalk 00:05:19].

Keris Marsden: Sometimes.

Matt Whitmore: It’s amazing how excited you can get, as well, if you know you’re having something for dinner that night.

Keris Marsden: You think about it a lot.

Matt Whitmore: You genuinely get excited about it.

Keris Marsden: Is that bad, though? I sometimes think I’ve got not enough going on in life to look forward to it that much. [crosstalk 00:05:34].

Matt Whitmore: No, no. Well, it could be. I don’t know.

Keris Marsden: I mean, luckily, it’s our career, as well, so you can justify it on those lines.

Matt Whitmore: Yeah, but also, as well, please bear in mind, you always say, “It’s never one thing,” And it’s the same with food. It’s never one thing.

Keris Marsden: So it’s the food, but it’s time out. It’s time with you. It’s relaxing. It’s the end of the day.

Matt Whitmore: You know, if you were just sat on your lonesome 00:05:56], eating that dinner, it might be quite nice; I don’t know. But-

Keris Marsden: Speaking of fasting, they often say the meal you should probably skip is dinner, and have a really early dinner. And I find that really hard, because it is the meal I look forward to the most, with you, because it’s like we switch off. We have dinner, and it’s-

Matt Whitmore: Well, I actually- [crosstalk 00:06:10].

Keris Marsden: It’s a family thing for a lot of people.

Matt Whitmore: I actually think that’s why that’s most people’s downfall, as well. From a fat loss perspective, how many times do you hear it, when people are like, “Oh, I know, my breakfast was bang on. I went to the gym and me lunch was spot on. But then I got home and that’s when …”

Matt Whitmore: Because I think it’s that mentality of, “My day’s over now. I’ve been working all day. I’m home. I’m with my family.” And it’s almost like relax time.

Keris Marsden: But also, you’ve burned through quite a lot of brain chemicals by that point, so your willpower is at an all-time low. You’ve made it-

Matt Whitmore: It always comes back to chemicals with you.

Keris Marsden: It does, doesn’t it?

Matt Whitmore: Just can’t help yourself.

Keris Marsden: You’ve made a million decisions by that point, especially if you haven’t prepped. And prepped in advance, which is the argument for doing a meal plan and doing your food prep. You have made so many decisions by that point that your brain goes, “What’s the easiest thing? And give me some fuel.”

Matt Whitmore: But I can relate, though. I can relate to that whole … If there was one segment of the day where I would probably-

Keris Marsden: Vulnerable.

Matt Whitmore: Well, where my willpower’s tested the most, it’s definitely in the evening. But you know, when I’m up, I’m up. I’m out. I go to the gym, or we walk Hamish, or whatever, and you have your breakfast and you crack on with work, and then it’s a nice quick and easy lunch, and then boom, you crack on with work again.

Matt Whitmore: So you’re kind of in go mode.

Keris Marsden: Yeah, yeah.

Matt Whitmore: You don’t really have much time to think about it, but it is that kind of like, “Right, I’m done for the day now.” Even though I’ve had a really nutritious dinner that I’ve prepared already, and done all of that, it’s like, “Oh, I’ll have a chocolate, maybe.” Or, “There’s a bit of ice cream left.”

Matt Whitmore: You know what I mean? It’s like, if there was that one part of the day … And I think it’s quite common with a lot of clients that we work with, so-

Keris Marsden: But it’s a good reason to also plan your dinner plans.

Matt Whitmore: I couldn’t imagine skipping dinner.

Keris Marsden: No, but it’s a good reason to plan the dinner, at least. And that’s how we always have what we call ready meals in, where we’ve got cooked proteins in.

Matt Whitmore: Oh, sure.

Keris Marsden: So if we get in late and we’re just so hungry, we can just do courgetti, and we’ve got some cooked prawns in, or something like that. We know how to make dinner.

Matt Whitmore: it’s important. Like a veg stir fry and then wallop, just pack some protein into there.

Keris Marsden: Five minute dinners.

Matt Whitmore: Tastes good. Does the job.

Keris Marsden: Yeah.

Matt Whitmore: Bosh, bosh, bosh.

Keris Marsden: Salad is an instant meal. And one forgets salad.

Matt Whitmore: It is, but there’s only so much salad you can eat.

Keris Marsden: I can eat a lot of salad.

Matt Whitmore: You can. But we’re not talking about fasting.

Keris Marsden: No.

Matt Whitmore: What we wanted to do in this episode was, I suppose, do a bit of reflection, if you will, because Keris and I have been reflecting quite a lot lately, both-

Keris Marsden: That word, though, is not gonna … Don’t turn off, if you’re listening.

Matt Whitmore: No, it gets … We’re going into some real juicy stuff here, I promise you.

Keris Marsden: We will. We will.

Matt Whitmore: But I see what you’re saying. Like-

Keris Marsden: I’m going to reflect on a hundred episodes.

Matt Whitmore: Yeah. But no, you know, if you think.
Keris Marsden: Boring.

Matt Whitmore: Because we have dragged these 100 episodes out, over a very long period of time. A lot has changed, for us, both personally, professionally. We’ve evolved a hell of a lot, in terms of our knowledge, our experiences, of course, grown over the years.

Matt Whitmore: And yeah, for sure, we’ve changed our stance on certain things, as well. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. I think it’s a sign of a good coach, good practitioner, whatever you want to call yourself, because-

Keris Marsden: A good person admits when they’re wrong.

Matt Whitmore: Yeah. Nothing wrong with that, putting your hands up.

Keris Marsden: Or actually, let’s say correctly. It’s not that we were wrong. We always told the truth as we knew it at that time.

Matt Whitmore: Yeah. Good point. We weren’t lying.

Keris Marsden: As we believed it.

Matt Whitmore: Yeah, it’s not like we knew something and just said the opposite. It was like everything out there was based on the research that we had done and our experience, and like Keris said, our knowledge at that time. And as I say, if you’re kind of forever evolving, as we like to think we are-

Keris Marsden: We are.

Matt Whitmore: You’re going to change your stance on things, because you’re faced with more and more research that maybe you didn’t find before. Or maybe new research will come about that didn’t even exist at the time.

Keris Marsden: Absolutely. And the more I’ve studied in the last year, the more I’ve gone back and studied more physiology, that’s partly to lecture, but partly to try and understand, obviously … Like, my parents have got cancer now, and I’m trying to understand the kind of metabolic theories that underlie that.

Keris Marsden: The more I’m like, “Gosh, we know nothing.” We really don’t know anything. And every time I come across something new, like new pathways, doing new courses, they’re like, “Oh, by the way, we’ve got insulin wrong. By the way, we’ve got hormones wrong. We’ve got adrenal fatigue wrong. We’ve got menopause wrong.”

Keris Marsden: Do you know what I mean? Everything. I’m like, “We have got so much wrong.” This is the medical world, and it filters out into functional and alternative medicine. There are a lot of things that we believed happened for that reason, and the more the technology and the studies advance, in terms of investigating the human body, the more we’re like, “Okay.”

Keris Marsden: The one thing that’s standing out to me more than anything, it’s food is just a small part of it, really. I mean, don’t get me wrong; you’ve got to nail it. You’ve got to get that right.

Matt Whitmore: Oh yeah.

Keris Marsden: But it’s such a small part of it. And more and more, with clients, I’m now a bit like … When people come to me, I think, “Well, we’ve done recipe books. We’ve done seminars. We’ve got online courses. So what is it that you need to know?” And half the time, it’s that we need to unravel a massive kind of environmental component.

Keris Marsden: Which is why, when I talk about environment, it’s relationships. It’s work. It’s home life. It’s relationship with yourself, that perception of yourself.

Matt Whitmore: Hundred percent.

Keris Marsden: And maybe some heavy metals in there, as well.

Matt Whitmore: Blah, blah, blah.

Keris Marsden: Yeah, basically, but the more I think, “God, I’m almost transforming a lot of what I do,” because there’s just no point in me labouring broccoli sprouts and kale if someone is in this really destructive environment. And that could be mentally or physically.

Matt Whitmore: Well, I’m glad you’re not labouring broccoli sprouts and kale, to be honest with you.

Keris Marsden: Because you hate them both.

Matt Whitmore: I draw the line somewhere.

Keris Marsden: What have you got against broccoli? It slips into anything.

Matt Whitmore: All right. Moving on.

Keris Marsden: You know what I meant.

Matt Whitmore: So reflection.

Keris Marsden: What we decided to do for this episode … The hilarious thing was, the last one we did, I said to Matt, “Let’s do three things that you think it’s very important that anyone on the health journey just keeps in mind.” So not three points.

Matt Whitmore: No, and I listed about 20.

Keris Marsden: Matt listed 20, and we were 45 minutes in-

Matt Whitmore: But it’s my thing, isn’t it?

Keris Marsden: And I started drooling.

Matt Whitmore: That’s what I do, I waffle.

Keris Marsden: Maybe we-

Matt Whitmore: You’ve got to take me as I am.

Keris Marsden: We bickered, and I said, “Why can’t you just do three?” But three things that you’ve got to… Not three things to do. So we’re not gonna say, “Eat broccoli sprouts and kale. Get to bed at eight o’clock.”

Keris Marsden: We’re gonna say three things, three components that have got to be with you on your health journey at all times, to make sure it’s successful. Because your health journey is gonna evolve all the time. It’s gonna change with age. It’s gonna change with environment. It’s gonna change with experience, knowledge. And it’s quite easy for it to go down the wrong path because you’re forgetting something really important.

Keris Marsden: So I am gonna do three things and you’re gonna do three things that you think are important.

Matt Whitmore: Yeah. Well, I’m gonna try. I’ve already written four.

Keris Marsden: Oh, God!

Matt Whitmore: I do my best. I’ll try and merge two of them, so they can stay as three. But.

Keris Marsden: I’m gonna start a stop clock.

Matt Whitmore: The thing is, guys, what we need to remember, and what we want to try and come across, or put across, in this episode, is, it’s like Keris said. It’s not like, “Oh, I think everyone should be eating more vegetables.” You know, we’re trying to look at the bigger picture.

Keris Marsden: Well, they should be eating more vegetables.

Matt Whitmore: We probably should be, yeah. But it’s part of a bigger picture. It’s part of … When we talk about health and we talk about this a lot, you know. What is health to you? Then a big thing that we’re talking about lately is looking at health beyond simply the foods you eat and how much time you spend in the gym, which is most people would like, think about, don’t they?

Matt Whitmore: You think health would be exercise. You think food. Of course, very important, no doubt about it. It’s only a small part of the puzzle. And we often talk about the blue zones in the world, with the highest amount of centurarians. Is that right?

Keris Marsden: Yeah.

Matt Whitmore: Is that right?

Keris Marsden: Centenarians.

Matt Whitmore: Centenarians. You knew what I meant.

Keris Marsden: Centurions.

Matt Whitmore: And so people that obviously live to a hundred and beyond.

Keris Marsden: Now you’ve got me doubting if it’s centenarians.

Matt Whitmore: Well, hopefully, one of them was right, at least.[crosstalk 00:14:06].

Keris Marsden: Could live ’til-

Matt Whitmore: Unless we were both wrong.

Matt Whitmore: Hamish is chasing the fly. Good luck with that, mate.

Matt Whitmore: and you look at what these blue zones have in common, and it’s not wealth. So these aren’t rich parts of the world, but there is a huge sense of community. There is lots of home grown, home cooked meals.

Keris Marsden: Even the bread is homemade.

Matt Whitmore: Yeah. Sunlight exposure. Massive one there.

Keris Marsden: Labour saving devices.

Matt Whitmore: Yeah, labour saving devices, like more movement day to day.

Keris Marsden: Oh, so, no. Lack of.

Matt Whitmore: Oh, sorry, yeah. Sorry, lack of labour saving devices, so more movement across the day, manual work, et cetera, et cetera. And lower stress levels. No doubt, better sleep quality, et cetera, et cetera. The list does go on.

Matt Whitmore: And when you look at that, yeah, there’s a mention of food and exercise, in the form of movement. Look at the bigger picture.

Keris Marsden: Their life doesn’t revolve around work and financial success, for a start, which is a big thing that-

Matt Whitmore: And Instagram and social media. And a big thing for us is community. That’s massive for us. And with regards to sunlight exposure, there’s only so much we can do. We live in the UK, et cetera, et cetera.

Matt Whitmore: But community is massive. Managing your stress levels is massive. Your social health, in general, is huge.

Keris Marsden: What you place importance on is such a big factor, because at the moment, people have lost the perspective on things, so logging onto social media, we know that it’s all in the media at the moment. It’s now linking social media to depression and mental health issues, because I know our news feed, thanks to you, is just full of mainly blokes in the gym doing stuff.

Keris Marsden: So if I log onto Instagram news feed, I’m like, all these men in the gym, and that day I decided that I wasn’t going to go to the gym. I was gonna put my feet up, and instantly feel like I’ve done something wrong. And it’s triggered by just seeing what everyone else is doing.

Keris Marsden: Which we never had that insight, and I think that’s not going anywhere. It’s always gonna be there, but you can decide how important that is, and you can decide whether to scroll through, or whether not to scroll through.

Matt Whitmore: It’s a reflection of your state of mind in how a thing you saw on social media makes you feel, because-

Keris Marsden: Actually, let’s bring in your first point. This is your first point.

Matt Whitmore: I wouldn’t imagine there’s many people-

Keris Marsden: Your first point about comparing.

Matt Whitmore: Okay, then. Good segue over into the topic. I did it again there. I’ve always meant to do that. How many time have I got that into a podcast now?

Keris Marsden: A couple.

Matt Whitmore: I’m doing well. Yeah, so one of the things I wanted to talk about-

Keris Marsden: I can’t believe how many points you fit in there.

Matt Whitmore: Don’t worry. Don’t worry. Ignore that list. That’s the old list.

Matt Whitmore: Is to stop comparing yourself to other people. I did a post about this on social media the other day, where I spoke about using other people’s success, other people’s journeys, et cetera, et cetera, as inspiration. Don’t use it to compare yourself to discourage you from making positive change, because we often talk about social media being someone’s highlight reel.

Matt Whitmore: I mean, don’t get me wrong. You get the odd few people that just seem to be negative all the time, and that does get a bit draining after a while. It’s like you almost want to find a happy medium between a bit of positivity, of course, a bit of motivation, but also a bit of realness, you know?

Keris Marsden: Yeah, yeah.

Matt Whitmore: Because I think sometimes with social media, people almost give the impression that things are just hunky dory all the time.

Keris Marsden: But there’s also the trends about the kind of ‘poor me’ stories, as well.

Matt Whitmore: Yeah, and I say, it just all gets a bit boring, you know. You just want a bit of realness.

Keris Marsden: We do try and give a little bit of a roller coaster about what’s going on in our life, and I think that’s quite important to see.

Matt Whitmore: We’re quite transparent, aren’t we? I think we are, anyway.

Keris Marsden: But I’d also say that a number of nutritionists and trainers that we’ve met in real life and been quite shocked by how we expected something different from their social media, just in terms of either from a physical perspective, of their physical fitness, or athletic ability, or-

Matt Whitmore: Too, personality. You meet some people in real life, and I’d like to think when people meet me, they think, “You know, you’re just like what I imagined you’d be, based on your social media.”

Keris Marsden: Quite unique.

Matt Whitmore: Yeah, yeah. Bit out there, you know what I mean?

Matt Whitmore: But where as some people. We’ve met some people and we’re like, “Is this the same person? Does someone else write their …”

Keris Marsden: We didn’t realise people did that, but yeah, sometimes, other people write their stuff.

Matt Whitmore: Facebook, because it just was completely different.

Keris Marsden: Anyway.

Matt Whitmore: But my point is, is you know, use all this kind of information, inspiration, and content that is out there on the world wide web, and all these social media platforms now. Use them to your advantage. There is absolutely no point comparing yourself to these social media profiles, because they are a different person.

Matt Whitmore: And I know it sounds like a very obvious thing to say, but … And don’t get me wrong. I’ve been there. Like, dark times for me, in this context, have been if I’ve been injured. Such as like the knee injury I had in the build up to the marathon, the shoulder dislocation, plus God knows how many injuries that I’ve had in the past, over the years.

Matt Whitmore: And the last thing I want to see is someone absolutely smashing a workout in the gym, that I know that I can’t do at the moment.

Keris Marsden: Yeah.

Matt Whitmore: But like I say, that’s just a reflection, my state of mind at that moment. That person isn’t putting that content out there to make people feel guilty. That person is putting it out there, maybe to, yeah, no doubt, probably to showboat a little bit. I mean, who doesn’t want to showboat a little bit?

Matt Whitmore: But no doubt, it’s to put some content out there, maybe inspire other people to do the same, give other people some ideas for their workouts, et cetera, et cetera. I can’t imagine there’s anybody that’s sitting there, going, “How can I make people feel rubbish about themselves?”

Keris Marsden: But this is your second point we could segue into, about-

Matt Whitmore: You love that word, don’t you?

Keris Marsden: I do. Adaptability. Because-

Matt Whitmore: No, no. We’ll come to that later.

Keris Marsden: Well, what I was gonna say is if you’re injured, you adapt everything that you’re doing, right down to who you’re following. You go and follow some rehab and movement expert on Instagram.

Matt Whitmore: Okay. Okay, we will go in that direction, then.

Keris Marsden: You go and look up anti-inflammatory on Instagram.

Matt Whitmore: That was a good segue. We’re doing well with the segues today.

Keris Marsden: You adapt in that time, because you’re like, “Okay, my health journey is not about a PB on Olympic lifting right now. My priority right now is to maybe fix my gut. Maybe heal an injury.”

Keris Marsden: So you go from… You start looking at people talking about prebiotic foods, recipes for that, how to boost your immune system if you’re not very well. There’s a tonne of stuff out there. You just adapt what you’re doing at that time.

Keris Marsden: But you adapt. Either spend less time on social media, if you’re kind of like, “Well, it’s not my thing right now. Need some head space.”

Matt Whitmore: And to be fair, I have done that. If I have been in a bad head space, because I’m injured and whatever, I do now, almost subconsciously, spend less time on social media. Because I’m a bit like, “Nothing against it, but based on how I’m feeling right now, I just don’t even want to see it.” You know what I mean?

Keris Marsden: Yeah, and also, in that same thing, that something that worked for you at that point in time and inspired you at that point of time, and that you used that person, you’re gonna outgrow it, as well, at some point in time. And then you’ve got to adapt again. Not just because you’re injured or something’s changed, but because you’ll get to a point where you’ve outgrown.

Keris Marsden: And this is what’s happening with, I suppose, plans where it’s, you’re gonna do this diet plan for 30 days or this fast for 14 days, or this juice cleanse and stuff. And people do them and do them and do them, and then it’s like, “Surely outgrown that by now.” It doesn’t offer you any benefit, just like training doesn’t, if you don’t actually start to adapt it and progress it in some way.

Matt Whitmore: Well, a hundred percent, you know. I suppose in that sense, there’s always an element of adaptation, because there needs to be adaptation in order to see progression.

Keris Marsden: Yeah, yeah.

Matt Whitmore: But you know, I think a classic example I like to give, in terms of adaptation, is, we’ve been talking about injuries, and I’ve mentioned this before, where people don’t make adaptations elsewhere. Say, for argument’s sake, they’ve done something to their knee. All of a sudden, they can’t run. They can’t go to body pump or Zumba or do the cardio exercises that they normally would do.

Matt Whitmore: Yes, it’s annoying. It’s frustrating. It can put you on a downer. We know the impact the exercise can have on your mood and your state of mind. Yes, absolutely some. You need to almost kind of be able to take it on the chin, say, “It is what it is right now. This is the situation I’m currently in, and I need to do something about it.”

Matt Whitmore: And one of the first things you should probably do, after you’ve got your mind right, is make adaptations to your nutrition, because if you’re expending less energy, you need to be consuming less energy. So people often place blame of weight gain on an injury, but-

Matt Whitmore: Place blame of weight gain on an injury. But the injury didn’t make you fat. The injury didn’t make you gain weight.

Keris Marsden: Yeah, yeah.

Matt Whitmore: You just carried on consuming foods as if you was still running four, five, six times a week or doing whatever it is.

Keris Marsden: Or maybe comfort eats or whether the.

Matt Whitmore: Comfort.

Keris Marsden: Opposite direction.

Matt Whitmore: And again, we’ve been there.

Keris Marsden: Yeah.

Matt Whitmore: I’m not trying to say like, “I’m all high and mighty. You just need to do this, this and this.” Blimey, have I been there with injuries because for many people, exercise is a form of comfort, is a form of therapy if you will.

Keris Marsden: Yeah.

Matt Whitmore: We always say like we are better people for exercising.

Keris Marsden: Yeah.

Matt Whitmore: Getting it done in the morning just sets you up nicely for the day. For me, yeah. Number two-

Keris Marsden: And also, it was also in terms of you talk a lot about if there’s a fat loss plateau and does there need to be again, adaptations made. And it could be from macro perspective, it could be total calorie intake, for a start. You’ve been speaking to me a bit about this, kind of saying, we discussed some of our client cases, anonymously of course, but I say clients not moving. I’m fixing to go, I think okay, is anything let me know, that you think I’ve missed. And you always go, you take it back to energy intake. Have you looked at energy intake? Does there need to be, okay there was weight loss. But, does there need to be a new adaptation, or seesawing the carbs and fat. So maybe we’ve gone no carbs, do we need to bring the carbs up and moderate the fat a bit, and change the macros.

Matt Whitmore: Yeah.

Keris Marsden: And again, that will kick start everything, you know. Lots of hormones are affected by that macro and change, so is it then more of a metabolic improvement from that sense.

Matt Whitmore: And I suppose that’s a good point to raise there, based on what you just said is, we as coaches or nutritionists, whatever. We rarely get it right the first time with the client. It’s not like you go, “Oh this is your client, this is your goals. Oh okay, fantastic. Here’s what you need to do. Bish, bash, bosh. They get great results, yourselves, and see you later.” Nine times out of ten, you’re constantly adapting things along the way.

Keris Marsden: Yeah, based on outcomes.

Matt Whitmore: Exactly. Because it’s not just like here you are, here’s your card for the next 12 weeks, good luck.

Keris Marsden: And anyone that tells you there is a magic bullet is lying. Because it’s so complicated in terms of the physiology behind. It’s not complicated, yes, as long as the key things are implemented. No one could know without the most technical bit of kit, the true calorie in/calories out formula that’s going on in your body right now. There’s so many confounding factors. And obviously it works over seven days. So in terms of getting this process to work, plus you’ve got the emotional side, plus you’ve got enjoyment and things to factor in, as in you won’t have food as a social thing at times. And you don’t want it to be this thing that controls you, and that you’re tracking all the time, we not good about either. Which is why on Fitter 16, there’s quite a lot of documentations about adaptations and flex and stuff. And it’s like “Well, if you’ve got a flow chart here, about snacking, we’ve got meal time adaptations.” We’ve got if you eat out.

Keris Marsden: I actually did a video for the members the other day. Matt and I, we’ve done Fitter 16 for years, this is really our approach to eating and nutrition. And we flex it, in terms of sometimes we go back a couple of phases, to the initial phase, which is about an elimination diet and basically supporting hormone and gut function.

Matt Whitmore: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Keris Marsden: And I have just recently back tracked a little bit in terms of, my gut’s kicked off after a stressful few months, I’ve got summer now off from lecturing and stuff. So I’m like right, I’m going to first of all fix my gut. That’s always the place I kind of was getting feedback, that my gut wasn’t happy.

Matt Whitmore: I’m always getting feedback as well. If you know what I mean.

Keris Marsden: And you know what? The interesting thing is, I don’t eat a lot of things like gluten and wheat, and I’ve kicked out alcohol and stuff. And again, we don’t have a lot of alcohol but, we don’t have any wine at the weekend at the moment. And within seven days, wouldn’t you agree? Within seven days, and I’m doing some anti-microbials, I’ve seen a massive improvement. But you know what I think has made the biggest difference? What I’ve really eliminated as well? Intense exercise and early starts. That’s made a huge difference to my digestive system.

Matt Whitmore: Huge.

Keris Marsden: Huge. So I know what to do when my gut kicks off, in terms of, I know all the supplements, and I’m rotating some anti-microbials, that’s definitely helped. It’s helped from a kind of, I can’t even tell you enough how much it’s helped from a hormone perspective. So it’s helped with everything from melatonin, I’m feeling sleepy at night, and sleeping better, I’m not waking up. All these things are improving because I’m fixing my gut. And as I just said, I’m moving back and forth between the phases. I’ve kind of kicked out flour and stuff and I’m trying to sort my gut, and get it out of me. But I haven’t been as strict with it. I haven’t taken out dairy, which I normally do with a gut heal. I’m still having sheep’s cheese and stuff like that, and I’m getting better and better, and better. So again, just another example of what I think the two big eliminations have been, in terms of exercise and sleep deprivation, and that’s made a big difference.

Matt Whitmore: It has.

Keris Marsden: Sorry, I digress, but it was useful stuff.

Matt Whitmore: No, no. Of course it was. That was your.

Keris Marsden: Adapting.

Matt Whitmore: I suppose that was you adapting based on your circumstance at this moment.

Keris Marsden: Yeah. I suppose another interruption, sorry. Is that you do go 80-20/90-10. That’s my rotation, at least sometimes trough, on holidays it might be 80-20, in terms about- [crosstalk 00:28:02]

Matt Whitmore: Well I was going to talk about holiday actually. And before I do that, I suppose the classic example, you mentioned social occasions. And a big thing that we try to educate our members and clients on is being able to adapt things in accordance to social occasions, be it a birthday, a wedding, a holiday, whatever it may be. When you do want to let your hair down a little bit. I’m trying to refrain from using the words treat and cheat meals. Because what I want to try to get people to do, is don’t see them as treats and cheats, see them as something that you’ve chosen to have as part of your healthy lifestyle. I know that might sound a bit cheesy and a bit wa-wa, but I do feel like it’s like as soon as you start labelling things as a treat or a cheat, it’s almost like it’s negative.

Matt Whitmore: Oh, ice cream’s a real treat. Well it is delicious, so you could say it’s a treat in that sense. But, there’s no reason why it can’t be part of a healthy lifestyle. Same with pizza, bread, whatever. You know? And as soon as you start giving things labels, then that’s a problem in my eyes. But what I was going to say was, a big thing that we often do if someone’s got an occasion coming up, and maybe they’re going to a pizza place, or whatever it may be, well okay cool we’ll maybe do an intermittent fast that day, and have a lighter lunch than normal, and wrap your protein up a little bit, to hit your protein target. But keep your calorie intake down, and enjoy yourself that night.

Keris Marsden: Yeah, just eat a bit lighter. But in a way that’s not like, “I’m saving calories for later.” Which has been the kind of cycle of dieting for years. [crosstalk 00:29:38]

Matt Whitmore: Well you kind of are, but you’re doing it in a strategic way.

Keris Marsden: A balanced.

Matt Whitmore: And it’s all about how you approach it. Rather than going like, “Oh, I’m not going to eat all day, so I’m going absolutely nuts tonight.” It should be like, “Oh, I’m going to do an intermittent fast, have a nice light, but protein dense, nutrient dense lunch, and then I’m going to enjoy myself tonight, have a nice pizza with maybe a side salad and enjoy a beer as well.” So it doesn’t mean that you can go absolutely mental that night. It still always needs to be an element of control. But that’s just a really simple example of how you can adapt to that day, to factor that into the equation. Like we said on holiday, we often do fast most days on holiday, intermittent fast only. Because we quite enjoy our evening meals when we’re on holiday, and we go to nice restaurants, and we found some places where the portions are quite generous. Which I always like.

Keris Marsden: I was going to say, I probably say I’d eat lighter now. I used to kind of dabble intermittent fasting, but I’d eat lighter now. Because I think for me, as a woman, more regular feeding is better. But I do have a tendency then in the evenings to eat exactly the same portion size as you eat, especially if it’s paella. Because I race you, I’m like, “He’s going to eat it all.” Or starting to eat it all.

Matt Whitmore: Get in there quick.

Keris Marsden: Yeah.

Matt Whitmore: Which to be fair, you never eat as much as me.

Keris Marsden: I try sometimes.

Matt Whitmore: You do try. But I’m too quick for you. She’s like, “Damn it, you got there first.” But again, that’s just a classic example of how we adapt things on holiday.

Keris Marsden: Yeah.

Matt Whitmore: That’s just something that works well for us. My one last one, I’ll hand over to you. And I’ll make this real quick, because I kind of touched on it already. That is just, not dwelling on the past. You know? It sounds like such an obvious statement to make, but the past is the past, can’t change it, can’t do nothing about it. Sure, you can learn from it, but I know so many people, so many clients who talk about how they used to train. What weight they used to be. What dress size they used to be. And they get so wound up about where they used to be, and how they are from it now, that it actually stops them moving forward. And for me, it’s just like, “Look, it’s in the past, leave it there now, focus on where you are at this very moment and the changes that you can make to move forward. Use where you were before as reassurance that you’ve done it before, you can get back there.” You know what I mean?

Keris Marsden: Yeah, yeah.

Matt Whitmore: So and I just think it’s.

Keris Marsden: Another alternative, or the same point again, because I’ve seen lots and lots of client cases, I’ve seen people who are not ashamed of their past, but can’t stop worrying about things they’ve done in the past, and what it’s done to their body. So it could be anything from alcohol abuse, recreational drugs, smoking for 50 years, stress, not eating properly, not eating enough, overeating, being overweight. Those kinds of things. So as well as you’re talking about the glory days for some people, like I used to be able to do all this stuff, the flip side of it, I’ve got people that are like, so much of my past and I’m worried, I’m worried. And it’s like, you’ve got to let it go, and you’ve got to focus on all the good stuff you’re doing right now. And same thing relationship wise.

Keris Marsden: People say, wasted so much time with that person. Or worrying about what that person thought of me. And it’s like, it’s gone. The time has come, but you know what? You’ve got the future to make the most of. And that’s why you’ve got to flip that situation, and stop wasting energy on that.

Matt Whitmore: Well focus on the things that you can change. You can’t change the past. You know? And don’t get me wrong. I’m not just throwing that out there as just like a, “Oh, forget about it, move on.” Because I know that’s far more easier said than done. It’s not like I don’t ever think about the past, or have elements of regret to a degree, of maybe things I did or said, or whatever. Do you know what I mean?

Keris Marsden: We often talk about as teenagers, I think everyone has a spell as a teenager. I know it can go wrong. My skin was awful, and my hair was greasy, and I’ve dated some terrible, made some terrible boyfriend choices. But overall for me, it was a time, this is one of the reasons we should confess that we like Love Island.

Matt Whitmore: What? Don’t know what you are talking about?

Keris Marsden: Because we happened upon it on Netflix, we’re doing the retro shows. It just seems to be what we need to see right now. Because it’s when your biggest decisions you made in life are what you’re wearing on a Saturday night, and what song you’re going to ask a DJ for. I don’t know. You get in your car, and well, I lived in a small town. Get in, your favourite music on, and go to McDonald’s for a McFlurry, and it was like, that was just amazing.

Matt Whitmore: That was life.

Keris Marsden: That was life. And you know, you had exams and stuff, but I feel for teens now, because there’s another level of anxiety with social media. But you said the same thing, you’re like, “Oh my god, I used to work really hard at Smiths, and save up for my trainers. And then I’d be so excited about getting my trainers.” [crosstalk 00:34:29]

Matt Whitmore: As long as I could hide it from my mom.

Keris Marsden: And it was like- [crosstalk 00:34:30]

Matt Whitmore: I’d strut out of W.H. Smith’s, got paid, straight into footlocker, be brassic for another month. But it’s all good, have you seen my new trainers?

Keris Marsden: And it’s all wrong, but there’s something about Love Island that reminds me of that, because all they talk about is like chemistry and love and all that kind of stuff. And it’s wrong, but we’ve been laughing about them that much, and how they train, and the men shaving their legs, and plucking themselves, and putting makeup on and stuff. And I’m like, “Well at least it’s completely narcissistic.” Don’t get me wrong. But it’s quite fun to watch. And it just reminds us of a time when that was kind of the big concerns. You didn’t have the responsibilities you have as an adult.

Matt Whitmore: Most be I never thought I’d see the day where I’d watch Love Island. Like, I’ve never ever watched it, even if we’ve been channel hopping, I would be like, “Oh god, get off of that.”

Keris Marsden: That’s what I’m saying.

Matt Whitmore: Then like Keris said, we just started on Netflix, because we got a couple of friends that are obsessed with it.

Keris Marsden: Yeah, yeah.

Matt Whitmore: And we were a big like, “Let’s see what the fuss is all about.”

Keris Marsden: Yeah. I love Big Brother. And it’s a bit like it, well actually the first ones have been. But we’ve watched the retro ones, because they didn’t quite know what fame would get from the series I suppose.

Matt Whitmore: Yeah, but I can’t lie man, I’m kind of hooked.

Keris Marsden: I think it’s cause, well anthropology is hot. Kind of just a phrase.

Matt Whitmore: But human behaviour is quite intriguing isn’t it? [crosstalk 00:35:50]

Keris Marsden: Yeah.

Matt Whitmore: You know, for many walk of life if you know what I mean. Like, it is quite intriguing.

Keris Marsden: Yeah, yeah. Anyway. Well that’s our guilty- [crosstalk 00:35:57]

Matt Whitmore: It’s out now.

Keris Marsden: That’s our guilty secret.

Matt Whitmore: It is.

Keris Marsden: Our escape at night. But, it is also, like I said, it’s a reminder for me. One thing that I’ve taken away from watching it, is when we first met, we were friends, and we went out a lot, and we socialised a lot, with big groups of people. And we went on holiday with the groups of people, and it was a lot of dancing. It was a lot of training. We trained together, we had good fun. There was dancing, paella, was up till God knows what time in the morning. We don’t do that anymore.

Matt Whitmore: No.

Keris Marsden: And I said it to you this morning, “I can’t remember the last time we went out and just had like a really carefree night. I don’t know, you get so involved in responsibilities and adulting, we run a business.

Matt Whitmore: What are you doing Friday night?

Keris Marsden: I’m worried about my Circadian rhythm.

Matt Whitmore: So immediately, you just completely contradicted yourself. I want to go out and large it, but I’m worried about my Circadian rhythm.

Keris Marsden: My brother just sent me some proper blue blockers for my birthday, thanks to you. Saying that’s what I’d like, some blue blocking glasses, which means I can go out and party.

Matt Whitmore: I can’t take credit, they suggested it.

Keris Marsden: Oh did they? Oh, bless them.

Matt Whitmore: I chose the model, but it was their idea.

Keris Marsden: What’s it called? Port a show them? You can see them on Facebook the next time I do a Facebook live, I’ll have my new blue blockers on. But anyway yes, we did talk this morning about when was the last time we went out, and just, the thing is, my problem with partying, is it does revolve around a lot of unhealthy stuff as well, doesn’t it? In terms of, to stay up that late, you’re going to need a bit of alcohol and sugar. Well I would.

Matt Whitmore: Well here’s the thing, right. I’m going to put this out there, because I feel it’s relevant. Don’t cut me off. Because I know you’re going to be like oo we need to go.

Keris Marsden: My three things.

Matt Whitmore: To go into my three things. But you’re so good.

Keris Marsden: I’ll be succinct.

Matt Whitmore: I think I can get this in there. Again, we talk about social health, which ties in with what Keris is talking about just now. And you know, a big part of that as well is managing stress. You know? It’s not a case of not stressing. We need stress in our lives, but like all things, there needs to be an element of control. We need to be able to manage these things. And a great example of this, is a few weeks back we went to Brighton for a weekend. And it was after a really kind of busy, busy period. We’d both been working our socks off. And you know, Keris supplies me with a bit of time away. And we did just proper let our hair down, didn’t we? You know? We went for nice long walks on the beach, we were very fortunate. The weather was absolutely fantastic. We stayed in a really cool hotel.

Matt Whitmore: We ate loads of good food, but of course there was ice cream, there was booze, there was bread, there was hangovers. You know? But we were just having such a great time, weren’t we? And it wasn’t like it was completely carnage.

Keris Marsden: No, no. And we don’t do it every week.

Matt Whitmore: No. And the reason I’m telling you this, is that we both just felt so happy, didn’t we? And we were just so happy to be away and spending some quality time with each other, just letting our hair down a little bit. I’ve done a live about this in our members group. And I titled it, ‘Have I told you about my rash’. I thought I was going to try and create intrigue, but I thought, if anything I’ll probably put anyone off watching this video.

Keris Marsden: Eating the breakfast.

Matt Whitmore: But the whole gist of this video was talking about, I tend to get a rash on my leg, which I always associated with excess sugar consumption, or maybe going a bit OTT on the bread side of things, or whatever it may be.

Keris Marsden: Chances are that’s a fungal skin infection.

Matt Whitmore: And that’s why I always made that connection. Because nine times out of ten, I’d eat a load of ice cream, I’d have some bread, or I’d have a few beers, and then a day or two later, this rash would kind of break out, and then obviously I would have it for a bit, and then it would just go. So I just always made that connection. But then, we went to Brighton, and like I said, there was bread, there was booze, there was ice cream. There was sweets. It was brilliant. And I remember saying to you, didn’t I, I was like, “My rash is going to go absolutely bananas after this.” And guess what? No rash. I was like, “Oh, that’s interesting.”

Matt Whitmore: And then, I suppose I was just a bit more flexible with my nutrition, because your dad had a birthday, and there was a few social occasions coming up. So again it was like bread, pizza, stuff like that. And again, no rash. And what I realised was, that I was actually feeling quite carefree, you know what I mean? I felt very in control of my stress levels, I felt very happy, very content.

Keris Marsden: You just got to the end of a big project, hadn’t you? So that’s kind of a factor in it.

Matt Whitmore: Yeah, and I’d took something off my list, and it was like a real weight off my shoulders. And I thought, “Gosh, all this time I’ve felt that I’ve had this sensitivity of sorts to excess bread and dairy and sugar or whatever, but actually, I think it wasn’t the foods directly, it was the environment in which I was consuming these foods. And Keris spoke about environment earlier. And I think for me, I was eating these foods in a stressed environment, with poor sleep quality and whatever. And I think it was almost like my immune system was a bit compromised because of that. And my body responded badly. Whereas ever since, like our trip to Brighton, and you know, I talk about I had maybe a bit of an epiphany when I was there, and just chilling out a little bit more. I’ve not had those issues after consuming those foods. And just for like, it’s a massive, massive breakthrough for me.

Keris Marsden: There’s one thing I’ve just got to say about that weekend in Brighton, one of my favourite bits was, because we hardly ever, ever do this. Was we woke up really early, because we still wake up really early, don’t we? Even when we kind of take time out. And it was bright blue sky.

Matt Whitmore: Even when we’re hungover.

Keris Marsden: Went down to the beach, and there’s two places that you should check out if you go to Brighton. Oh come on, I’ll find it in a second. One was, we got a coffee from this beautiful little Italian restaurant on the seafront in Hove, which is very, very famous, because JoJo Moyes the author goes there and writes her books. And it’s run by an Italian family, they’ve run it for 20 years.

Matt Whitmore: Yeah.

Keris Marsden: And all through the day that we were there, we couldn’t actually get in because the queue was so huge, and we were like, what is with that? It just looks like an Italian restaurant, I don’t understand. And then when we got in there, if you go at 6:00am you’ll get in, in the morning. And we went in there, we got a really nice strong coffee. And we realised it’s quite famous, and they do really nice coffee actually.

Matt Whitmore: And there’s queues for the ice cream.

Keris Marsden: And there’s queues for the ice cream that day, yeah. So we got a really nice coffee, and then around the corner is a place called Sugar Dough, which do freshly baked croissants, and they were pulling them out the oven. So we watched. Basically, sat there, pretty much kind of sunrise on the beach, eating freshly baked croissants and coffee, and it was divine. And I actually had to draw the line, because you would actually go back and do that again, and again, and again.

Matt Whitmore: Should get another one.

Keris Marsden: So if you do go to Brighton, I can’t think of what the Italian restaurant is.

Matt Whitmore: This was literally like a fresh, out the oven croissant.

Keris Marsden: Yeah. I said to you-

Matt Whitmore: It is delicious.

Keris Marsden: I can’t eat a croissant anywhere else now, after having had that.

Matt Whitmore: It set the standard very high. Must admit, I might look into making my own.

Keris Marsden: Yeah. Same thing with, we had some bread as well, freshly baked. I’m trying to think of the name of it.

Matt Whitmore: So anyway, those are my-

Keris Marsden: Morocco’s. Morocco’s was the coffee shop.

Matt Whitmore: Oh. Coffee shop/Italian restaurant.

Keris Marsden: So you can go there, and apparently it’s only in the winter. She writes in the winter. You’ve got the sea front.

Matt Whitmore: Who knows, it was in my story that you told me. So just to recap guys, it was for me, stop comparing yourself to other people highlight reels. Focus on you, and your journey, and just use those people to be inspired.

Keris Marsden: Same thing for their nutrition as well.

Matt Whitmore: Not discouraged.

Keris Marsden: Don’t follow it because it worked for someone else.

Matt Whitmore: Exactly. Yeah, 100%. The power of adaptation. You know, in any circumstance. Being able to adapt is always going to help you, and not dwelling on the past. Because you can’t do nowt about it. Sound like your dad then.

Keris Marsden: I was going to say, you sound like someone from my hometown, anyway.

Matt Whitmore: So over two [inaudible 00:43:44], you’ve got 13 minutes.

Keris Marsden: Right, okay.

Matt Whitmore: We need to stick to the sub one hour.

Keris Marsden: Yeah, I will. I bet I can do this more succinctly than you. Ready?

Matt Whitmore: Listen don’t rush. Don’t stress yourself out. Enjoy this moment.

Keris Marsden: Number one, is to educate yourself along your health journey, but don’t overwhelm yourself. And by that, I mean we’ve all got a little bit trigger happy with Dr. Google. You know, google my symptoms, find out what’s going on.

Matt Whitmore: I’m dying.

Keris Marsden: Obviously working in the College of Naturapathic Medicine, I see this all the time. People come in, I’ve googled my symptoms, it’s cancer. I’ve googled my symptoms, I’m going to have a heart attack. And we’ve talked about this a little bit before. One thing I’m starting to notice is how sick people get also, when they are diagnosed with a disease. Lots of other people write about this in the nutritional therapy world as well. How it changes you. You could be walking around with cancer, heart disease, all those kind of things. Yes, we should be doing stuff to prevent. Yes, we should be following. By the way, it’s everything we’ve been told for years, eat more vegetables, do your exercise, sleep more, stop smoking, stop drinking in excess. That’s a really good starting point. So a lot of the principles we should be following. But, I find that people are kind of chasing diagnosis, chasing disfunction, chasing an answer. And it becomes unhealthy. And you forget. You kind of then meet up with say, “This is not going to happen to me.”

Keris Marsden: You meet up with a uni friend, you meet up with your school friends who are completely oblivious to all this stuff in their life. And do you know what stands out? They’re freaking happy.

Matt Whitmore: Yeah.

Keris Marsden: They’re happy, and they’re likely healthier than you are. And sometimes, I think it helps to step back, and shut down the computer, stop overthinking it, and start focusing on the things that you know support your health.

Matt Whitmore: Yeah.

Keris Marsden: And sometimes that is about going back and reconnecting with old friends, and doing stuff that makes you happy. Primary example for me, might be that I do a dose of maybe festivals this summer, and a bit more dancing. Are you up for that?

Matt Whitmore: I’ll come to a festival, yeah. You can crack on with the dancing. I’ll be over in the food tent.

Keris Marsden: But stuff that I’ve always loved doing that I don’t make time for. You know? And I do this a lot with clients. I say, “What do you enjoy doing?” And I’ll get different answers to horse riding, I like crochet, I like going to live music. When was the last time you did it? Well, not very recently, if I haven’t been doing it. Well maybe you need to do it.

Keris Marsden: …when was the last time you did it. Well, I haven’t been well so I haven’t been doing it. Well, maybe you need to do it, and then you’ll get well. So for me, it’s about education but not overwhelm. And if you could find yourself getting obsessed and overwhelmed with detail, I think it’s time to step back, sit down. And it might be the point where, you know what, you just need to outsource the job, the process of getting you better to somebody else.

Keris Marsden: And I think all of us need to think about that, including me and you at times. We go and see body workers rather than going, “Oh, I think it’s this. I think it’s that.” You go and see body workers. I’ve seen nutritional therapists myself. You’ve done the same. But we go and see other people when we feel like we’re overthinking it and we’re cherry picking as well. We’re either being very like, “It’s negative. It’s this.”

Keris Marsden: So, yeah. And just one more example of that is, if I look at my own family, for a while, I was kind of really digging dip as to why my dad got cancer, what was the dysfunction, and how could I fix it, what could I do, and really went in kind of deep. But when you look at both his mum and sister died of cancer, if you look at his mum, his mum didn’t have any kind of treatment. And if anything, I’d say she kind of not enjoyed the process. That’s the wrong thing to say. But certainly, she became the centre of attention, and lots of people surrounded her. She had a lot of support. She had a doctor who she thought like…she put him on a pedestal. She had a purpose every single week. She’d go to the hospital. She had lots of student doctors around her going, “You’re so wonderful. You’re amazing.” To her, weirdly, it became a very positive experience.

Matt Whitmore: Yeah. Yeah.

Keris Marsden: Should I say?

Matt Whitmore: Yeah, you should say.

Keris Marsden: And you know what? She lived with it for, I think it was 20 years. Yeah, over 20 years. And it didn’t kill her. And there were lots of cases where the disease does not kill the person. Obviously, she was too old for chemo and so they just kept removing the cancer where they could. And then you look at my dad’s sister who, for her, there was this… I would say she got the diagnosis, and she got that diagnosis late because she had some symptoms that she was scared of that she didn’t really go and ask anybody about. Then she gets the diagnosis, and then you just saw this fear in her. And so the fear led her to go down the route of really harsh treatments and almost not listening to the important stuff. And what else could she do?

Keris Marsden: And so I think… And she didn’t make it past 18 months with her cancer ’cause the treatments pretty much wrecked her immune system and wrecked her body. But it’s just interesting how I just think the mind is so powerful with it. And so if you are diagnosed with a disease, and there’s lots of cases of people who go off and decide to go and live the remainder of their time doing something they love, and they come back and the disease is gone. That’s just everywhere. If you go and deep dig, you’ll find so many examples of that, be that cancer or be that any kind of AIDS, autoimmune diseases, that kind of stuff. People go, “All right. I’ve got six months left. I’m going to go and do something.”

Matt Whitmore: Yeah.

Keris Marsden: People live to really decades and decades. I just think it’s important to think about whether you’re overthinking a situation, creating a very, very negative mindset, which then creates a very negative biochemistry. It does all come back to chemistry. You’re creating a large amount of stress hormones, anxiety, which steal things like tryptophan which is used to make serotonin. So if you want to look at it on a chemistry basis, serotonin makes you feel good and happy and content. So you lose the ability to be happy if you really do wind yourself up about these situations.

Matt Whitmore: I suppose the thing is here is that, on the one hand where we’re very fortunate to kind of have so much information so readily available to us. There was once upon a time where you’d, long before the internet and Google existed, where if you had anything that didn’t seem quite right with you, you’d have to go to the doctor’s. There was no other option. But like I said, it’s not necessarily a bad thing.

Matt Whitmore: But at the same time, there is that information overload and overwhelm that you just mentioned. And it’s kind of how you control that situation.

Keris Marsden: Yeah. So there needs to be that element of… So it’s a bit of a hard one to call, but I think out there, if you’re listening right now, you’ll know if you’re going down that route of overwhelm because you’re like literally it’s all you’re doing and you’re trying to perfect and refine everything from your nutrition to your supplements and maybe even go down the route of enemas and all sorts of stuff to do everything you can to cleanse your body, detox and stuff like this. If I get one more email about juice fasting, I’ll probably hit the wall. Without even really understanding what you’re doing, that’s another factor. So that’s mine really.

Keris Marsden: And sometimes even I, it’s my job to know a lot of stuff, but I shut down the laptop and I’m like, “I just want to go off and talk to a random stranger on a dog walk.” You know what I mean?

Matt Whitmore: Yeah.

Keris Marsden: And that’s what I go and do. And incidentally, this morning, I was in the park training with some friends who I did yoga teacher training with. So we just kind of walk out and do some strength work. And this man came along, and we were actually doing planks. But you know, you walk out… Try this, by the way, guys. You do a plank, but you walk your hands out into a Y shape as far as you can.

Matt Whitmore: Yeah.

Keris Marsden: So I know you normally do walk your hands forward. It focuses on the core. But do it in a Y shape.

Matt Whitmore: Wow.

Keris Marsden: So you’re literally… your core goes, “I’m going to split in half if I don’t fire.” It’s really good.

Keris Marsden: So we’re all doing that, and this little old man comes along, and he goes, “When I was 25, I did 150 press ups.” And then he walked off.

Matt Whitmore: Really?

Keris Marsden: And we were like, “That was amazing. Just brilliant.”

Matt Whitmore: Well, what did we just say about not focusing on what you used to be able to do?

Keris Marsden: Exactly. So pat yourself. Sometimes, you just forget the world exists out there. That is just an example, but sometimes I love it when I’ll walk home and strike up a conversation with a complete stranger about something like the weather, about something like dogs. And I just love it. And sometimes, it’s a point in my day when I feel truly at ease and calm and rested and stuff.

Matt Whitmore: What did I say to you earlier? ‘Cause again, we’re kind of like I suppose pre-holiday trying to tick all the other things off and stress levels are a bit higher than usual. I said to you just yesterday, didn’t I, that these dog walks with you are kind of like is what’s keeping me sane. It’s my therapy I get twice a day.

Keris Marsden: Yeah. Okay, so that’s one. And very quickly, this is going to sound like it almost conflicts with that point, but I’d say listen to the feedback from your body at all times. And by that, I don’t mean again start going, “Oh, I’ve got a bruise here. What does that mean? I’ve got vitamin C deficiency or iron deficiency.” I don’t mean Google.

Matt Whitmore: You’ll have a lot of people Googling that.

Keris Marsden: What? That they’ve got easy bruising?

Matt Whitmore: No, just all problems about themselves.

Keris Marsden: Yeah. Just me that does.

Matt Whitmore: What am I deficient in?

Keris Marsden: Yeah. So listen to feedback from your body in terms of… We can kind of go down a route of doing stuff, and the feedback can be anything from it can be symptoms that we’ve just talked about. So it can be your gut kicks off, you get loose bowel movements, you get constipation, you get inflammation, you get pain, you get joint problems, those kind of things. And before you go off and Google it, so let’s say this is kind of the point, step back for a second and say, “Is there something, if I’m honest with myself, I’m doing that’s causing this symptom?”

Matt Whitmore: Yeah.

Keris Marsden: And nine times out of ten, you will know the answer to that. So a good example for me is recently I have been running a little bit more. I was kind of inspired by you doing the marathon and then you talked about us all doing it as a team next year. And I was like, “This could be great.” But also, I like to run before my lectures. It helps with memory and helps with my confidence sometimes. It just gives me this kind… anyone that runs says that it gives you that juzz first thing in the morning.

Keris Marsden: So I’ve got into a habit of doing, but then the problem was I got off of my lecture work, so then I did more runs. And it was convenient because I go out with Hamish, and that was ticked off. And I really guilty if I don’t kind of do my share of the dog walks to help you if I’m not there away lecturing. So anyway…

Keris Marsden: And the feedback from my body, there was kind of a couple of things. I was started to get some nibbles in some of my joints and was getting kind of cramps in my joints, that kind of stuff. But other things, like I know it’s weird, my hair was getting a little bit thin. And I was like, “This is kind of unusual.” There was just loads of feedback. And I ended up going to get my hormones tested, and they were flat lined.

Keris Marsden: And I think back and think, “Did I need to go and get all that done?,” as in the hormone testing side of things. It was useful because it was like, “Your hormones are flat lined. What are you doing?” And I was like, “Well, I sometimes get up 4.30am in the morning and I run through there. And I do this and I do that.” And he was like, “Well, you need to stop all that.” That’s it.

Keris Marsden: But I think, if I just listened to the feedback from my body earlier, and it was extreme fatigue was one thing. I felt physically tired to the point of like as in muscular fatigue sometimes when I got up, almost like just lacking.

Matt Whitmore: Yeah, by you’re of that mindset, which I can totally get on your days of lecturing, very long days, to be alert, on the ball mentality, you want to feel good, you want to feel confident. You’re going to stand in front of a room of 50, 60 students. So for you, it was like, “I’m a better person for exercising. I know I’ll feel better if I get Hamish out. I might as well go for a run, kill two birds with one stone.” And almost, it was like that was more important than getting an extra hour or two.

Keris Marsden: In bed.

Matt Whitmore: In bed. Leaving the dog walk for me, not feeling guilty about that ’cause he’s my dog too, and knowing you’re an awesome lecturer regardless of whether you’ve been on a 6K run or not.

Keris Marsden: Yeah. Yeah. Kind of that process. But yeah, so I would say… But there was other feedback. My digestive system was kind of what really stopped me in my tracks ’cause it was like once this goes, everything’s going to kick off. I just know that’s the situation. My mood will kick off. My hormones will kick off. And they have.

Keris Marsden: And mood was fine because I was actually really enjoying lecturing again. I really enjoyed running in the woods with Hamish. So funnily, I didn’t have symptoms that you’d normally expect.

Matt Whitmore: No.

Keris Marsden: But I should have listened to the feedback sooner. And I just want to say to people out there, you’re going down this route, just listen your body essentially and give yourself that honest kind of assessment, that order. And if you’re working too hard, doing too much, not eating enough, eating too much, just be realistic and say, “Okay, I can turn this around in a couple of weeks.”

Keris Marsden: I would say in over a week of stopping the running, stopping getting up early, basic kind of gut protocol, I feel really different for it.

Matt Whitmore: Yeah, you’ve already said like a week.

Keris Marsden: Yeah.

Matt Whitmore: And you feel so much better for doing it. Even though you had that initial hard bit where it was like, “Oh, I feel like I should be doing something.”

Keris Marsden: Like you would, I feel myself out of pram because you go out and you see… I see people all the time doing triathlons and ultra-marathons. And I’m like, “I’m just running in the woods with the dog for half an hour.” But my body was like, “No, you’re not.” So that’s fair enough.

Matt Whitmore: You know honestly one thing I’ve learned over the years when I’ve worked with people who do a lot of triathlons and lots of endurance events? What you see on the outside…

Keris Marsden: I know. I know. They wreck it.

Matt Whitmore: They’re all like broken. And the stuff they push through, it shows just how mentally tough they are, ’cause they just push through some crazy stuff. And you just think they’re just loving life, and their bodies are just tolerating all of this.

Keris Marsden: But also, it kind of highlighted to me that there was a phase I took a long time off of running for injury and now I’m fine. And I thought injuries would pull me up again if I’m honest, especially if I was going to go for a marathon. And it didn’t. And it just shows me that I lost the fact that…the appreciation for the fact that I could just run again. And I pushed it again. I just can’t be trusted with my…

Keris Marsden: But this is what I say to a lot of people. It’s good for me to do this because I use that experience to teach others. And so, we’ve just got to go back to appreciating that we’ve got this amazing bit of kit here and we’ve just got to look after it. And you find yourself resorting to going back to old habits, and there are certain things that… the demons are always there with a lot of those being under-eating, overeating, sugar cravings, doing nothing, and exercise-wise doing too much.

Keris Marsden: So you just have to, every now and then, kick back. I tend to find just going back to doing, at the moment, I’m just going back to strength training. One of my hormones that was low was testosterone. And it’s like I know what to do. I help loads of male clients and female clients with this kind of stuff.

Matt Whitmore: You’re training them kind of on what mistake not to make.

Keris Marsden: Yeah. So my fats are coming up and my strength training’s coming up, but mainly sleep and sunlight as well. So I’m outside the door and see people.

Matt Whitmore: What you said is interesting in terms of just kind of stepping back and assessing the situation, because how many times have you been with a client, and same with me, and they list off all these things, “This is going on. That’s going on. And it never use to be like this.” And blah, blah, blah.

Matt Whitmore: And you go, “So why do you think that might be?” And they start listing things off and you’re like, “There you go. You’ve cracked it.” But it’s almost like they needed someone to go, “Why? Think for a moment.” And it sounds like such a simple thing, but so many people don’t. They don’t just step back for a moment and just do a bit of an assessment of why this could be happening. It’s almost like they just accept it. This is what’s going on. I want something done about it. When most of the time, they know.

Keris Marsden: The funny thing is, where the hormones come in as well, is the first thing you’re offered by a GP is hormone intervention because they’re not really trained in terms of lifestyle and nutrition and that kind of stuff. I never say never. I made need a hormone intervention at some point if my hormones don’t pick up.

Keris Marsden: What was low for me was the ones released by the brain, so luteinizing and follicle stimulating hormone. So it kind of suggests there’s just like a low level of output, it could be stress-related, it could be lots of things. But generally, if you look at it, it’s doing too much. There’s too much either exercise, too much stress, lack of sleep, everything in terms of the master gland in the brain which is signalling what mode you’re in has been affected.

Keris Marsden: So for me, I’d be crazy, and I’d say this to any other woman out there in terms of your hormones falter. You’re crazy to think that that is detached from you and that you’re nothing to do with that process. You’re a hundred percent having to do with that process. And I often say to people, including myself, it’s not a hormone problem. Your hormones have got a problem with you. And that’s why they are like they are.

Keris Marsden: So you have to step back, and before you go down that route of supplementation, remember the supplementation may just drive the response or the imbalance that’s already there. So for me, it might drive… If I’m kind of favouring stress response and I stick more hormones in, who knows what might be the effect. I may have down regulated hormone receptors of all sorts in the meantime.

Keris Marsden: So my best bet is to try to do the opposite of what I have been doing and create the opposite hormone profile. So that’s what I’m doing. And I will try to do a lot of stuff on social media and Instagram to try to show people what I’m doing. It’s probably the opposite of what most people are doing on Instagram. I’ll be there eating steak, cake, carbs.

Matt Whitmore: Steak and cake.

Keris Marsden: Steak and cake.

Matt Whitmore: That sounds good.

Keris Marsden: Sleeping. Here’s me sleeping. That would be a good one.

Matt Whitmore: Sleeping.

Keris Marsden: And my last point is very quick so I don’t need to labour it, but do not feel guilty for prioritising your own happiness. And if you haven’t watched it already, I did start watching today Eat, Pray, Love, which has been in my DVD player forever. You’ve not seen it, have you?

Matt Whitmore: No.

Keris Marsden: And she basically walks out of her life where she wasn’t happy to go and do stuff that she had never done before like travel the world, dance in Bali, eat ice cream in Italy. And it’s like there’s bits of it where she says.

Matt Whitmore: You bringing up something here?

Keris Marsden: No. No. There’s a bit where she says… Her friend says, “Oh, don’t you feel guilty? Aren’t you gaining weight? Don’t you think this? Do you think you should get responsibility? Do you feel guilty for leaving?” And she’s like, “No. I’m just on a journey.”

Keris Marsden: And I think you don’t need to go and do any of those things. You don’t need to go… nothing drastic. But even I started to do things like read a book for pleasure on the train instead of reading lecture notes and webinars and podcasts and things like that. Just give yourself a break to do things that you love that make you happy. And I love reading fiction books. And I do it at night, but I need to start doing it in the afternoon. And the weekend, go out for ice cream and enjoy it and sit in the sun and relax and sleep and go and do some dancing and eat marshmallows and have a Love Island night out maybe.

Matt Whitmore: A night out. Well, we did joke, didn’t we? We said should we do an Only Ways is Essex night.

Keris Marsden: I really fancy having like [crosstalk 01:02:16]

Matt Whitmore: I’ll buy myself some new loafers, get my teeth whitened, gel my hair back, get a fake tan.

Keris Marsden: Amazing. ‘Cause I always say the effort, I couldn’t do it. I rarely brush my hair most days. And I use like… I just made some dry shampoo, which is even better, out of cornflower, arrow root and essential oils. So I do it even less now, wash my hair. But I’d just fancy one night having the works, the nails, the false eyelashes, the big hairdo.

Matt Whitmore: Oh my God, that’d be hilarious.

Keris Marsden: Yeah, just would be funny.

Matt Whitmore: That would be funny. But no, I think it’s so true. Here is something that we see a lot and especially in women is this element of guilt for doing anything for themselves. And on the one hand.

Keris Marsden: Especially if it’s for pleasure.

Matt Whitmore: Yeah. It’s almost like it’s lovely to see how selfless many women are in terms of what they do for their partners, their children, the rest of their family. But as the saying goes, you can’t pour from an empty cup. And it’s important that you have a bit of downtime. It’s important that you invest in yourself ’cause.

Keris Marsden: And it doesn’t have to be to go and do exercise and things like that either, which is what most women do given the time out. They go, “I got to go and exercise.” Or go and do something for someone else.

Matt Whitmore: Just go to a coffee shop and get a coffee, a bit of cake, and read a book for a couple of hours or whatever. No one should ever feel guilty about that. But saying that again, we can totally relate as business owners, people who have an online business. We have elements of guilt, don’t we? When we feel like we should almost always be working and feel bad for having a bit of downtime or off.

Keris Marsden: If you’re listening now, what you should do is pack your partner, your mum, or your friend off for the afternoon and say, “Go on. Just go and do something you haven’t done for ages that really makes you happy. And turn your phone off so no one knows where you are.” Yeah, that’s what we should all do.

Matt Whitmore: Maybe let them know where you are.

Keris Marsden: Yeah.

Matt Whitmore: Just in case.

Keris Marsden: That’s it. That’s my three.

Matt Whitmore: So what’s interesting, I don’t know if anyone else has picked up on this, but we’ve not really spoken about nutrition.

Keris Marsden: No.

Matt Whitmore: As such. You don’t need us to tell you that the foods you eat may be growing in your overall health and well-being.

Keris Marsden: I think if they made it to episode 100, they kind of know most of healthy foods now.

Matt Whitmore: I think you’ve got a good idea. You don’t need us to tell you about that. But again, just to reiterate, you need to look at the bigger picture because you can eat as what’s seen as on paper a perfect diet, you could be exercising frequently, but if you’re head’s not in the right place, if you’re body’s stressed, if you’re not getting enough sleep, if you’ve not got good social health, a nice healthy environment around you for the best part of the day, then you’re going to run into problems. And you need to look at it as a much bigger picture, much more factors to it than food and exercise, like we mentioned. And just be prepared to invest a bit more time and effort in those things as well as.

Keris Marsden: I think that was a nice episode.

Matt Whitmore: It was a nice episode.

Keris Marsden: I think the six things.

Matt Whitmore: Do we both agree?

Keris Marsden: We both agree. This one is going to be sent to the other side.

Matt Whitmore: YAY. So guys, I hope you enjoyed. It would be awesome to see if maybe you could do a bit of reflection of your own and yet be sure to feed that back to us. We’d love to kind of hear about you, your journey, and the things you’ve learned over the years about yourself and whatnot. Yeah, definitely get in touch at [email protected] We’d love to hear it. If you enjoyed the episode, please leave a review over on iTunes if you haven’t done so already. Share it with a friend, anyone you think might benefit. And if you’ve got any questions at all related to health, fat loss, et cetera, again just get in touch [email protected], ask away, and maybe we could cover it on a podcast. So that’s it, guys. Episode 100 done and dusted. We will see you in episode 101. See ya.