Keris and Matt continue their review of nutrition and supplemental support for mental wellbeing.
Listen below or head to iTunes for the full episode.
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Our discussion includes –
- The most important macronutrient for mental health
- Vitamins and minerals required for good mood and motivation
- Basic tests and key nutrients for healthy neurotransmitters production
- Quick solutions for anxiety
- Safe supplement interventions to support healthy mood regulation
Read the full transcript below:
Matt: What’s up fitties? This is episode 103 of Fitter Food Radio. And of course, it’s me and Keris and Hamish is here as well under the table because that’s where it’s sheltered and shady and cool in this blistering hot UK weather.
Matt: How lucky are we?
Keris: Hey, Look he’s doing the splits because apparently with a dog, they want to keep their chest nice and cool, don’t they? Or stop their heart from racing too much if they get hot.
Keris: And I know it’s him to keep coming in almost doing splits on the floor. And it’s to get his chest onto to the floor. It’s like a little doggy yoga move.
Matt: Obviously not for resting.
Keris: He’s so dramatic. He comes in and just like.
Matt: Just plops on the floor.
Keris: Literally thumps onto the floor. And then look, that’s what I was saying. His legs are like spread really wide.
Matt: How would you feel if you couldn’t sweat?
Keris: True, this is true. I was talking to another dog owner who said she had a female dog. And they used to go for walk in this lovely woodland with a lake. And she doesn’t like water, going in the water and swimming. But she said when it got really hot, dogs know they have to cool themselves down. Amos just really, he just knows where the various lakes and ponds are.
Keris: And told me it was almost common. And he always heads there when it gets to hot. And she said this female dog used to go to this lake but like an old lady who doesn’t wanna get her hair wet. She’d just kinda walk in and just kinda dip her chest into the water and then walk out again. And her ears would still be dry and she.
Matt: Guess the dogs were related.
Keris: No, this is a dog.
Matt: Just dip in and get her chest wet.
Keris: Yeah, they simply kicked her up.
Matt: Just imagine the dogs on the side like, what you doing?
Matt: I’m rolling.
Keris: Be interestingly, this is a random conversation I was having with a woman outside a croissant shop actually.
Matt: Oh, yeah.
Keris: You guys were getting coffees not croissants. And she came over and said.
Matt: Why’d you just put that out there? What if we were having a croissant?
Keris: Yeah, our favourite.
Matt: What are you saying Keris? What are you saying?
Keris: To be fair, we want into our favourite croissant shop and didn’t buy a croissant, didn’t we? We just came out with coffee. That was pretty impressive. But that’s not why I’m telling you this conversation with this woman who was outside the shop waiting for something, I don’t know.
Keris: And he always leads to a conversation cause often he’ll go and try to get his ears rubbed or something or go and stand between someone’s legs. And she said oh, he’s lovely. What’s his name? But we were talking about having a dog and she said you know when I had my two dogs.
Keris: She’s the one who had the dogs that used to, the lady dog used to swim in the lake. She said I walked every day for well over an hour regardless. And said both of them died a couple years ago. And I was heartbroken. Haven’t brought myself to get another dog. And she said I honestly haven’t walked since.
Keris: And she said just seeing you today made me think of all the places I used to go with my dog. All the woodland or a lake and it’s sad. You kinda think why don’t you get one? But obviously they have to make that decision don’t they? But.
Matt: Would you remember some time ago when we were off in [Stratapanava 00:02:58]? We used to. Expensive ones has a routine don’t they? And we’d get with a dog at a similar time most days. And when we’d Stratapanava visited like right now, we have like a kinda like a nice walk that we always do, don’t we? And we wanted that old lady who we used to pass going opposite direction.
Matt: Joe Vernon, she said that she used to have a dog and use to walk the dog twice a day. Obviously we’d walk by every single day. But the dog died. But she was determined to keep the walking up so even now she hasn’t got the dog. She still does the exact same walk that she would have done with the dog twice a day.
Keris: With the dog, yeah.
Matt: And I thought well that’s amazing cause it would be so easy to just be like well I haven’t got a purpose to do it now.
Keris: Yeah, yeah. I think I should listen to Stephan Guyenet. Who, I think we’ve probably mentioned him a few times before. Does a lot of work about the human brain and eating and exercise. And said some people, he said naturally the human body, we are lazy. We’re quite, we’re designed to be quite lazy. To almost like conserve energy. We kinda take the path of least resistance in a lot of stuff. And he said, now what’s happening is not moving is being engineered into our way of life basically. Which is pretty obvious, we’ve now got cars, we’ve now got these stupid scooter things that you got mad about. What they called?
Matt: On our Segways?
Keris: And you’re like, “Why are you people doing on those things”?
Matt: I think.
Keris: And then we’ve got escalators and everything. He said it’s been engineered into your way of life and so you actually have to kinda fight almost to move. That you have to be even more disciplined. It’s making it harder for us and the brain actually has to work even harder. And he said some people are just not natural exercisers.
Keris: So if you’re not a natural exerciser, you’ve always got double the battle on your hands. And that’s why, I remember saying to an actor once you’ve gotta get a dog then. I think if you’re not a natural exerciser and you’re not someone who’ll go out for a walk like that lady twice a day. Cause you’re like I’m going to go for a walk if it makes me feel good. Like I think now it’s ingrained into my life. I’m a natural exerciser.
Keris: Have done since the age of 19, same for you. Whereas, you know I’ve talked to my mom about this a lot, my mom is not a natural exerciser. And I keep saying you need a dog.
Matt: That’s for sure.
Keris: And her mom’s the same. And they had dogs until they were in their sixties. But mom and dad were like we don’t want the tying down. We don’t want the commitment.
Keris: And so much cause they like travel. But I was like you’ve gotta start become a natural exerciser than. You got to find a way to ingrain into your daily routine.
Matt: Saying that, there is a guy I see on some Segways common. When I walk the dog quite early, who just gets to the common, sits on the bench, lights a role up and then just throws the ball for the dog from the bench.
Matt: So, yeah you’ve gotta actually walk the dog as well.
Keris: The best is someone who lives around the corner from us and he walks, it can’t even be 20 metres to the rest stop common. And does the same thing outside the club, lights a fat, gets a pint, throws the ball for his dog across the rock. That’s just brilliant. That literately, must go about 20 steps to get there. Like his dogs probably.
Matt: Who’s that?
Keris: Just the neighbour lives around the corner.
Matt: Just the neighbour.
Keris: And his wife is a nutritional therapist.
Keris: Now you know who I’m talking about.
Matt: Now I know who you’re talking about now. Yeah, anyway.
Keris: You would have been fired by now.
Matt: Gotcha. Walking the dog?
Keris: Yeah, yeah.
Matt: Kinda pissed.
Keris: Makes me think, dog put me in the pool didn’t he? That was funny. He kept me there for hours. Anyway.
Matt: Any who, so in the last episode, we spoke a little bit about mental health, anxiety, and we had some really good feedback from it, didn’t we?
Keris: Yes, we did.
Matt: And you also done a Facebook live on a similar subject and spoke a little bit more about supplementation. And we’ve had quite a few messages sort of asking for a little bit more detail on the kind of, the supplement nutrition side of things. So we figured why not get in sucked into that in this episode?
Keris: It’s really interesting because this is exactly like path of least resistance when it comes to exercise. And it’s exactly the same when it’s fixing anxiety.
Keris: If we can take a pill.
Matt: Can’t I just take a pill?
Keris: Yeah, let’s see just take a pill. That’s a lot easier. And I try to, this is a lot of stuff that I do. And lots of people that I work with on a one to one level say is there anything in the meantime else. Cause it can take a little bit of time to obviously fold 20, 30, 40, 50 years worth of emotion, and how you think, and how you react in certain situations.
Keris: So, of course, in the process, what could you do? And is there anything in terms of supplements and food. And there is so we briefly touched them in the last episode. But again, I’m just gonna emphasise it firstly, if you’re gonna do this? Don’t just start ordering stuff online willy-nilly. And you’d best go and see a nutritional therapist. Doing it in that structured manner.
Matt: We should almost, you see this as a bit of a disclaimer.
Matt: We’re not saying you can just almost supplement your way out of anything. Because obviously mental health, or anxiety, or anything along those lines, comes in different shapes and forms and comes from very, very different root causes. So not all situations are the same. Therefore, you don’t want you to just start making this big list of supplements that or foods that we’re talking about, and then just go out there and spend an absolute fortune in the hope that that’s gonna be the answer to everyone’s problems. Cause that’s not the case. This is, the clue is in the name that we always say supplement. It’s to supplement lifestyle changes, nutrition changes, the bigger picture.
Keris: Yeah, kinda said. And I suppose just to reiterate. The initial thing that I would do to anyone kinda suffering from anxiety and those kind of, any of the different kinda the big spectrum mental health disorders. And it goes right the way through to things like Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. You know kind of, if you just notice. I’m sure we notice we go through phases of being kind of, not wanting to be around people. Almost withdrawing a little bit. Just not feeling yourself. Put they range from the kinda lit bit uh, a bit mediated to.
Keris: Actually like something is really wrong with me at the moment. But the foundations that you’ve gotta get in place, I think first and foremost, we talked to the mass broadcast so you can skip back to 102 and look at things like purpose. Wanting to get out of bed, your environment, the people that you spend time with and financial security, and you need to put some things in place around that.
Keris: In fact, it’s probably a foundation nutritionally. But I’d say its kinda this delicate balance that’s going on between hormones which are. In fact, we have something called Neuro Endocrine Immune System. So that’s Neuro, we think about this is your neurotransmitters. This is those chemicals that kind of really are governing how we think. And therefore, how we act as well.
Keris: Endocrine is hormones so that’s, hormones are things like insulin, which we talked about a lot, or you’ve also got so which are kinda both neurotransmitters and hormones like adrenaline, Noradrenaline. Depends on where it’s released from. If it comes from a gland then it’s a hormone. If it’s coming from the brain, it’s a neurotransmitter. But essentially the two are basically chemical messengers that respond to both the internal and external environment.
Keris: And they’re like an email that whizzes around the body and then they kinda trigger some kind of response from the body in some way. So again, if you have this after while see things like fuzz. They say the heart will, see that first and start to beat quickly and then that will trigger everything from kind of different neurotransmitters get fired and then you start to get physical response. So you might start to feel shaky or like adrenaline start to pour.
Keris: And that’s kinda like how we have that emotional experience. So we’ve got neuro, endocrine, and the immune system because what we know about the immune system. And this is kinda building and building in the research, is the immune system is always influencing the balance of the different hormones and neurotransmitters. So I was listening to Guyenet today saying that if you have really low blood sugar levels in the morning.
Keris: It could be a sign of inflammation. So you’ve got basically some kind of inflammatory chemicals going on that mean that the cells start to take up sugar much quicker. And the immune system itself can demand some sugar for it’s on kind of activity. Can demand, I say sugar, I mean glucose.
Keris: So it can demand glucose for it’s activity which can lead to low blood sugar levels. And if your blood sugar levels go too low. This is a fascinating thing about the human body. If your blood sugar levels are too high, there’s one hormone that tends to kick into action. Do you know what it is?
Matt: If your blood sugar levels are too?
Keris: Yeah, so but if it’s too low, we’ve got four or five that kick into action.
Keris: So we’ve got glucagon, which is glucose is gone. We have things like adrenaline, we’ve got cortisol. And these are the ones we know our stressful names. And they release when our blood sugars go too low because it’s so important that blood sugars don’t go low. Because every single cell in the body needs glucose to function to some extent.
Keris: So even growth hormone gets really, well growth hormone really blocks the uptake of glucose into a cell. So it keeps blood sugar levels nice and stable. So, we’ve got these hormones that kick in. So these cities are saying that when people have high levels of some influencing chemicals in the body, they were kinda pulling glucose into the cell much more readily than they should be doing. Leading to low blood sugar levels.
Keris: So, the reason I’m kinda saying all of this is your immune system is affecting the output of brain chemicals and that’s affecting hormones. So, the three things work together which basically makes you really complicated. Because it means that how you think could change how you regulate glucose in the body. And that could also change if you have an infection or you’ve got some kind of inflammation going on. Or yeah, which you know. And we know this because how do you feel when you’re ill?
Matt: Well, like crap.
Keris: Yeah, lacking motivation would you say?
Keris: And sometimes kinda madly depressed?
Keris: Sleepy, tired, fatigued, so we know that kinda inflammation does that. And also, hunger levels go all over the place. Sometimes people are ravenous when they are ill. Sometimes they just have no appetite at all. Sometimes they get shaky. Sometimes not so all the three are linked. And I can’t remember why am I telling you that?
Matt: Nobody cares.
Keris: Well anyways. I know why I’m telling you. So from a nutritional perspective, what you wanna make sure of is that you’re kinda keeping up with nice and stable in terms of the meals that you eat. And the other side that, the reason I also wanted to explain that is we know that the immune system is very much effected and inflammatory signalling is effected by what? What one part of the body do always talk about a lot?
Matt: The gut.
Keris: Yeah, the gut. So we have to also think about.
Matt: Well, you talk about it a lot.
Keris: Well yours makes a lot of noise. Doesn’t necessarily talk.
Matt: Let’s not go there.
Keris: Let’s not. Anyway, actually I’m just gonna digress and tell our listeners about a win I had with you. ‘Cause Matt is very anti-supplements. He gets very annoyed when the supplements arrive. He gets annoyed when they fail out the cupboard and hit him on the head. And he’s like what are all these for? Don’t even understand that my job as a nutritional therapist is always to explore these things. I get sent a lot of free stuff as well. And I’m always just kinda testing stuff out.
Matt: Well, our bank statements would suggest you don’t get sent enough free stuff.
Keris: Let me see. So anyway, when I, and half the stuff that I order, I take. And I always think it’s not really me that needs it. It’s probably you. And one of the things is glutathione which is the master intercellular antioxidant. So kinda, think of it as basically you. It’s like the master cleaner. Goes into a cell and like mops up any kind of mess or damage that’s going on in there.
Matt: So, I’m the master cleaner now?
Keris: Yeah, and some people have a reduced capacity genetically to kinda recycle glutathione and make sure they have enough which would essentially mean that you should probably do less activity in terms of not so much stress, intense training, things that raise your antioxidant needs. And you, when we did that test, you had the genetic kind of variation that meant you might need more glutathione but you never took it. I ordered it for you and you never took it. And then you noticed that you got a little grey patch on your beard.
Matt: I don’t think a grey patch. It was like one strand of hair.
Keris: Yeah but.
Matt: That’s not a patch.
Keris: Going grey.
Matt: Let’s be clear.
Keris: Is a sign of oxidative stress so it’s like your kitchen is too messy.
Matt: But I’m 32. People get grey hairs in their 30s, yeah? ‘Cause my facial hair is darker than my head hair. And now I see dark hair and grey hairs tend to show more there.
Keris: Yeah, but then I noticed the next day the glutathione was out so you’ve taken it.
Matt: That’s true.
Keris: So then.
Matt: You’re so vane.
Keris: I’ve found your pain point basically.
Matt: Should I go grey.
Keris: But yeah but when your hair goes grey, that could be your beard, or your hair, or I often say this is also correlated with having children apparently. Because all my friends say they go grey when they have kids.
Matt: Yeah, I know.
Keris: It’s just a sign of oxidative damage so like too much kinda damage, stress is going on in the body. And therefore you need some more antioxidants.
Matt: But maybe I’ll be another George Clooney, you know what I mean?
Keris: Silver fox?
Matt: Silver fox, yeah. Maybe I might be able to put it off. Who knows?
Keris: You’re one of the best.
Matt: Maybe I don’t wanna know. We reach for that ‘Just for Men’.
Keris: You’re a new model.
Matt: So I dye my beard different colours just for laughs.
Keris: Just remember your biceps. Do you know what the best food is to raise glutathione in the body? One of, I probably shouldn’t tell you this come to think.
Matt: No really.
Keris: Protein, can’t get enough protein.
Matt: I don’t get enough of that.
Keris: I know, yeah. And of course there’s vegetables as well. Anyway, interestingly though antioxidants would be really important because every time your using your brain, if you think about the fact a neuron is a cell, and every time. Again when we do our kinda talks, the way that I might explain this to people is, it’s a bit like you’re doing a massive batch cooking session in the kitchen. I think this will bring mass podcast comments but you’re doing a massive batch cooking session and if you don’t tidy up like I don’t tidy as you go, you make a big mess.
Keris: So, the more recipes you start doing, the more messier it gets. But then imagine you’ve got some new food shops coming in as well. So you’re ordering more stuff and then you’ve got nowhere or don’t got anywhere to put it away and it all gets a bit hectic eventually you’re gonna have to stop cooking because it’s just going to be a big tip in there.
Keris: And that’s the kind of same thing that’s happening with different cells in the body. Whereby they’re not regulating energy very well in terms of taking glucose in, using it to kinda make ATP which is the energy currency of the cell and then knocking up all the kind of byproducts of that.
Keris: Of the activities with antioxidants and then producing whatever they’re trying to produce like it might be a neurotransmitter, or it might be a hormone or something like that. So basically, the kitchens are getting to messy and are not able to kinda function properly. That can happen in the brain so when it happens in the brain, this is when we get impaired production of neurotransmitters.
Keris: and there are loads and loads of neurotransmitters but a lot of the ones we talk about are serotonin makes you feel calm and content and happy and satisfied. Or dopamine which makes you feel motivated and helps you focus. It helps you pay attention to stuff. And I think we talked about, it’s on the last podcast, but you need the right balance of the two. Some people don’t produce enough and some people don’t clear them very well. So if we don’t clear dopamine, it kind of is going to effect your mental health.
Keris: So again, kinda going back to the nutrition side of things. We’ve just mentioned that antioxidants would be fundamental for that.
Keris: … side of things, we’ve just mentioned, antioxidants would be fundamental for that but also just the basic vitamins and minerals that a cell needs or the basic environment that a cell needs to be able to produce some neurotransmitters and then break them down and the communicate with one another and communicate with the environment.
Keris: So, diet is going to be fundamental in that in terms of paleo kind of template. So, number one goal is meet your protein needs, I would say, with these kind of things. And the feedback I get from clients when they increase their protein is often, “Gosh, I just felt more stable. Mood felt better”. You’ve seen the same, haven’t you when people have said, “Less of an appetite. It’s quite satiating. Macronutrients as well.”
Keris: One of the reasons being, obviously, all neurotransmitters they’re made of amino acids essentially and so, therefore, making sure you hit your protein requirements is going to be beneficial for that. And then the more you’re doing, this could be the more you’re thinking or the more you’re training, the more you’re using up, you’re going to have a higher turnover of these amino acids, then basically, the more, the higher you might want to take your protein intake.
Matt: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Keris: So, I suggest to some people going to about 1.5 grammes per kilo. I know you’re like just whack it up to 2 aren’t you?
Matt: I normally say 1.8 to 2 grammes per kilo with the view that, I mean, obviously, it depends entirely on the individual, their lifestyle, the amount of training that they do, the type of training that they do, etc. But the reason I say 1.8 to 2 is that if you aim for that and you fall a bit short you still have a decent hit of protein for the day.
Matt: Equally, if you happen to go over it’s not big. But for a lot of people, I mean I love protein. I quite happily … It’s weird because in a way the ketogenic diet or the lower carb diet, should I say, would be relatively easy for me to do because I do enjoy fats and I do enjoy proteins. But I like protein too much, actually a keto diet wouldn’t work because my protein intake would probably be far too high.
Matt: To actually be even be in ketosis. As far as low carb, it would be quite easy for me to follow from the [inaudible 00:20:09] consistency point of view because I wouldn’t feel, I’d be able to adhere to that, no problem, from a taste perspective. But chances are from a performance perspective, especially now I’m playing 30 again.
Keris: Yeah, because you and I, also the, obviously, the more, we talked about this before, but the more intense the exercise the more you’re going to tap into the energy system that will be more anerobic so you’ll be using more [bicogens 00:20:32] so it’s going to be more about basically, or glycolysis, so you’re using more of a carbohydrate, carbohydrates are going to be the fuel source predominantly. Whereas, if you’re low level and cardio and not doing that much you could probably do kind of fat fuels quite happily and performance wouldn’t be too much of an issue.
Keris: When I say that level of proteins to a lot of clients they kind of get overwhelmed. And when I say to a woman, every woman [inaudible 00:20:58] say, “Oh I have protein. I have an egg with my porridge.” No, no, no, no.
Matt: That’s what I mean-
Keris: And they get 6 grammes of protein.
Matt: Probably a lot of people 2 grammes per kilo per day-
Keris: It’s a lot isn’t it?
Matt: -is quite a lot, especially compared to what they were on previously.
Matt: It does require a bit of, I suppose, gradually-
Matt: -increasing it.
Keris: What I was going to say is, so the first supplement I’m quite a big fan of is protein supplements-
Keris: -and that comes in the form of-
Matt: [inaudible 00:21:25].
Keris: Yeah, it can come in the form of any of the good quality protein powders and it’s a reason I’m a fan of the protein powders when people aren’t too keen. And we often say, mix them up, so combine everything from you can do vegan, you can do rice, you can do hemp, you can do pea, or you can do whey, you can do collagen powder.
Matt: Honestly, why did you mention hemp?
Keris: Some people like it.
Keris: And it’s in some blends now. There are some vegan … They are improving. There’s some vegan ones coming through that are hemp and pea and rice.
Matt: Yeah, but it’s blended in with ten other things to disguise it.
Keris: No one must know that hemp is in here. Yeah, it’s a bit sandy. So protein powders is one option. Essential amino acids you can get in powders and capsules, is another options. So for some people taking a few essential amino acids in the morning, I know you’re going to say no. It’s more to hit protein requirements.
Matt: Yeah, but I think that’s for individuals, I would say, that are eating a pretty low protein diet.
Keris: Yes and no. Again, some people still struggle even when I say, “Here’s a protein powder. Here’s this, here’s that.” They’re still not quite sure of even 1.2 to 1.5. And the other reason I might suggest those is also absorption. So, if I’m rebuilding somebody’s gut and I’m concerned about are they digesting and assimilating nutrients, I might go with like an amino acid powders, just, again, just to make sure. Because you have to remember with protein, in terms of digestion of protein, it’s kind of got different stages. It’s so important that we get it down to just amino acids. Of course, that protein can’t get into the body because it’s what you’re made of and your immune system will basically tag it and say, wow, those amino acids together, chicken, you look a bit like chicken and, therefore, that’s kind of one of the mechanisms that we think autoimmunity starts.
Keris: So, we have stomach acids, which basically kind of unfolds the protein. Then we’ve got [inaudible 00:23:18] [cynogen 00:23:17], then we have hundreds, thousands of these [protility 00:23:22] enzymes that work in the small intestine, but even the brush border of the gut has lots and lots of enzymes on the villin. They’re what we call brush border enzymes, ready to break down protein again so only amino acids can get through. So, if someone has anything from poor production of stomach acid to damaged intestinal lining to small intestinal bacterial or fungal overgrowth, which are quite common, then there’s a chance they’re not getting their protein intake. They’ll often say, “I feel bloated or full with protein. I get farting.”, that kind of stuff.
Keris: So they’ll often say they get symptoms. So sometimes I’ll say, “Let’s just do some powders and essential amino acids to make sure that they are getting their amino acid needs. What you can do is some people suggest doing the amino acid precursor to the brain chemical, if that makes sense. So the precursor to serotonin is tryptophan. We don’t tend to give tryptophan anymore, but you can do 5-HTP as a supplement that some people will suggest, take 5-HTP to increase serotonin production. That’s one option. And that can help people with things like sleep as well because the pathway for those brain chemicals, it goes tryptophan and then the more readily available form is 5-HTP and then serotonin and then it goes to melatonin. So that’s how we get that kind of pathway works.
Keris: So if you can’t fall asleep it might be a sign that you’re not producing enough serotonin. But then the other side is you’ve got another pathway where it’s all about dopamine and dopamine is the wrench in motivation and focus and concentration. People think it’s also involved in some of the more spectrum disorders as well. I think I mentioned on the last one gut health, yeast overgrowth is implemented in problems with dopamine, so we talked about this on previous podcasts.
Keris: But sometimes yeast infections and their byproducts can interfere with the breakdown of dopamine and [inaudible 00:25:11] and that’s why they think they’re associated with changes in behaviour. I’ve had a few clients where we’ve actually worked with, this is more with kids, where we’ve put them on antifungals like nystatin or maybe natural antifungals and they’ve said they’ve noticed a big difference in their behaviour in terms of things like anger and concentration and focus as well.
Keris: The [inaudible 00:25:31] is the precursor of dopamine is tyrosine, the amino acid tyrosine. So some people suggest taking tyrosine in the morning and therefore you’ll feel a bit more get up and go but more motivated. The only thing I’d caution with that is you need to know that the problem is production and not breakdown-
Keris: Because too much and too little look quite similar, if that makes sense.
Matt: Yeah, right.
Keris: Are you still with me?
Keris: You still concentrating?
Matt: Yeah. No, I was just going to say, what foods contain tyrosine.
Keris: Perfect. So I would say changing your breakfast to a tyrosine breakfast, tyrosine-rich breakfast, which is going to be meat, fish, eggs, that kind of thing. Cottage cheese is really rich in tyrosine. So we have a recipe which is cottage cheese with almonds and blueberries as a breakfast in the morning and you can even stir in, some people stir in oats, don’t they, and make it a little bit more like cottage cheese and oats. It’s just creamy isn’t it? It’s just like having yoghourt [crosstalk 00:26:28].
Matt: What did you say? Cottage cheese-
Keris: Yeah, this is in our recipe file.
Matt: Hold on. Carry on.
Keris: Yeah. And almonds. Yeah.
Matt: Oh, I don’t know why I was sure you said olives.
Matt: I was like, hold on a minute.
Keris: I thought you were going to criticise it. I was going to say it’s in our recipe database.
Matt: I would never have approved [crosstalk 00:26:47].
Keris: No, and flax seed, some do flax seed in there as well. That’s actually used as a bit of a cancer therapy, cottage cheese and flax seed oil. It sounds a bit out there, but because it contains different fats. So if you put flax seed oil in with a dairy so yoghourt or cottage cheese, it contains something called Arachidonic acid and then the flax seed is very rich in, it’s an omega-3 precursor, [alpha nucleic acid 00:27:14] acid, and those two fats are what make up the cell membrane. So it’s used to replace cell membranes that might be damaged or dysfunctional in cancer treatment. So there you go. So it’s used as a treatment.
Keris: But you could just have it as a nice breakfast. The only thing about flax seed oil is that it gets rancid very easily so you should have it frozen. People buy it in bulk and freeze it, or they buy the flax seeds and then freeze them and then grind them every single day.
Matt: Wow, that sounds like far too much [crosstalk 00:27:37] for me.
Keris: I know you would say that. But yes, that’s one of the [cancer 00:27:42] therapies for cell membrane replacement. Anyway, so that would be a good idea to start your day with a protein-rich breakfast. If you are, again, rather than do tyrosine as a supplement, I’d do a tyrosine-rich breakfast, or just do essentially amino acids and the body will use it for what it needs. Because without testing and working out where the dysfunction lies, it’s difficult to say that you need more tyrosine. And it might make you have dopamine which could make you a little bit aggressive, so you don’t want to do that. Do you?
Keris: Another thing to note is to make all of those different neurotransmitters requires oxygen, so it’s always good to get things like your blood count done or look at your iron levels. If you’ve got any kind of anaemia, which could be a kind of B-12 issue, a [folic 00:28:28] issue or something wrong with low levels of iron or iron store, then oxygen is not going to be delivered around the body as effectively and oxygen’s needed for a lot of these neurotransmitters to be converted and produced.
Keris: Vitamin D is really important, so also getting your Vitamin D levels checked and, obviously, being outside this time of year will be beneficial. Definitely in terms of things like the sleep pathway, Vitamin D is really important. So we talk about getting daylight exposure in the day and the sun hitting the skin is really important in terms of the cells know when it’s daytime, switching on certain enzymes, but also just in terms of neurotransmitters. But then everyone says they feel better in summer, don’t they.
Keris: That’s why we get SAD disease.
Matt: But then here’s a question then. Why is it how I always get really sleepy and tired in the sun? Like if I [inaudible 00:29:14] in the sun I almost always want an afternoon nap. [inaudible 00:29:20] energising, but I just go in a kit.
Keris: I would say that that’s an environmental feedback. The body doesn’t want you to move around too much, it’s too hot. It’s trying to regulate temperature. So if you start doing anything too aggressive, temperature goes up, the body will be going whoa, whoa, whoa, you’re going to be sweating too much, it doesn’t want to … I would imagine the natural response of the body in heat is to slow everything down and conserve energy because otherwise it’s going to expend a huge amount of energy trying to regulate your temperature and cool you down all the time. Again, that would be why I would imagine.
Matt: Do you see what I’m saying though?
Matt: All right.
Keris: And you have a lot of muscle mass so, again, for you, you would be-
Matt: I do, I do.
Keris: You would be warmer than most people as well. So just another couple of things to mention. What would be really helpful in terms of another supplement to try? So we’ve talked about increasing protein, maybe using protein supplementation, making sure that you can digest it as well. Another thing that could be helpful is going to be looking at just a general multivitamin. So there’s lots of other things I have mentioned, Vitamin C, Iron, Copper, all the B vitamins are involved in the production of neurotransmitters. So actually, people often taken a B vitamin when they are looking at things like stress or trying to sort out mood health. But I would say more it’s about just take a general multivitamin because they’re going to work quite synergistically and please do not buy it from shops and high street stores. Get a good quality multivitamin. We’ve written about this on the Fit Food websites so you can head over there and read about good brands and pharmaceutical grade.
Keris: And another thing to note is there is a special role here for B-3 because B-3 is so important for so many different kind of functions in the body. B-3 is used a lot in terms of a cell taking in some glucose or some fats or whatever and the mitochondria use it to make energy.
Matt: Would most good multies contain enough B-3?
Keris: Yes, it’s niacin is your B-3.
Keris: They used to be, I’m laughing because niacin is basically fundamental for all the different processes and it’s used therapeutically for things like cardiovascular disease now. But there’s a form of it called non-flushing niacin. I don’t know if I mentioned this before in a podcast-
Matt: I think so.
Keris: Because I gave my mum a book, she had a pulsating aorta at one point, this is when I just started studying. And I gave her a book called, “Heart Disease, What Your Doctor Doesn’t Tell You”, and it talks about the role of the B vitamins in fundamental for cardiovascular health. But just for general cellular health. But if you think about it for the heart is basically a muscle, so in terms of it’s all about energy. We should do a podcast at some point on energy metabolism, because it’s all about taking in energy and using a substrate like glucose or fatty acids or proteins and using that substrate to make ATP and then ATP is what the cell uses to do what it needs to do.
Keris: B Vitamins are integral for all of those processes for your mitochondria to work. And in heart health, obviously, it’s all about muscles and blood vessels so they’ve got to be able to do what they need to do. But the reason I was laughing was my mum read this book and she went off and got some niacin and she gives some to my Dad and they were driving through France in a camper van and he started to have what’s call the Niacin Flush and, basically, from the head down you just start burning like mad. Some people like run into doctor’s surgeries and hospitals and go, “What the hell’s happening to me?”, because you just burn.
Keris: He was driving and he’s like, “What’s happening to me?! What have you given me?” His face started nice and flush which is where all of the blood vessels will start to … Let me get this right. It would be basal dilate, I think? Yeah. It affects all the blood vessels so they literally start to fill, it’s like you’re filling with blood all the different kind of peripheries. But what you feel is like a burning sensation essentially. So my Dad had a niacin flush driving and had to pull the camper van over and he was like, “What the heck?”, and they rang me and I was like, “What have you done?”, and they took niacin.
Keris: So you can get a non-flushing niacin or a niacinamide is another version of it. But the reason that B-3 is important … Tommy mentioned the B-3 on the podcast 101 because he was saying it could be helpful in terms of making sure that you process all your B vitamins. It helps with a process known as methylation. But there’s something call the tryptophan steal that can happen, which is where, remember I just said that tryptophan is the precursor to serotonin. Serotonin makes you feel happy and calm and satisfied. But tryptophan can be converted to B-3 if you haven’t got enough, because B-3’s so important.
Keris: So the body has loads of ways of working around nutritional insufficiencies. One is it will convert tryptophan down that pathway to become B-3 and it’s done in times of stress. So they call it sometimes a stress response, they call it the tryptophan steal. You’ll know if you’re stressed you don’t feel too great do you? But it’s a bit kind of chicken and egg, is it the stress or is it the fact that you can’t actually make any serotonin anymore. It’s kind of a natural response to that situation.
Keris: Again, you might want to look at doing something like B-3 if you’ve been chronically stressed or that you think you might have some kind of serotonin production issues. So that’s another one to think about.
Keris: And, again, just foods rich in it. Two servings of liver a week is going to cover most of this stuff. If you really wanted to get your Bs in. It’s funny, when to take a multi, a lot of people say, contact me and say, “Oh my pees gone fluorescent.”
Matt: Yeah, yeah.
Keris: The same thing happens if you eat liver, it’s so full of the B vitamins, if you eat enough of it. It’s just a byproduct, it’s very natural.
Keris: So, we’ve got take a multi. We’ve got, we’ve talked about the amino acids.
Matt: [crosstalk 00:34:47]. So we’ve spoken about amino acids or increasing protein intake in general.
Matt: Vitamin D.
Matt: Through supplementation or just more sunlight-
Matt: -exposure, daylight exposure. A good multivitamin.
Matt: It’s kind of like tick all the boxes. More tyrosine-rich foods-
Keris: Yeah, definitely.
Matt: -or supplements. From foods first.
Keris: Definitely foods.
Matt: First always, and that’s it so far.
Keris: Okay, glycine, I’m a big fan of. There’s a few … This is again, still on amino acids and I feel like amino acids are safe. So glycine is an amino acid that we would have got through things like skin and organ meats and the kind of tissues around bones. It’s why people are having bone broth. Fundamental, it’s one of the constituents of the gut, but also can help in terms of of enhancing [GABA 00:35:36] which is a kind of inhibitory calming brain chemical.
Keris: Glycine and you’ll often see some supplements like magnesium can come in magnesium glycinate. So that means it’s attached to some glycine. But the glycine form will tend to have that calming effect. So when you have magnesium attached to glycine it enhances the absorption because it’s attached to an amino acid. That’s why it’s called a chelated vitamin when it’s like that, mineral sorry. Then the body will use the glycine as well.
Keris: Another role for glycine is it can …
Keris: Then the body will use the glycine as well. Another role for glycine is it can really help. Methylation is a process, we’ve done a few podcasts on it, this is methylation is involved in the production of the neurotransmitters. Some people under-methylate, some people over-methylate, and both of those can be associated with either depression, anxiety, all the kind of different mood disorders. So glycine is … this thing called the glycine buffer which is … many of us eat too many muscle meats which is one of the processes of methylation is to recycle methylene. So methylene is part of the methylation cycle and its get methylated, that’s why it’s called methylation.
Keris: Into homocysteine and then back into methylene, and if you eat too many muscle meats, and also too many methylene-rich proteins, you may find that you are prone to anxiety or mood disorders. So, just to kind of … I know you’re kind of looking at me going, “What the heck?” Methylene-rich proteins are the ones that most of us eat too many of. So, it is things like whey, chicken, eggs, cheese. So, we’ve become kind of a bit obsessed with methylene-rich proteins as a human race have generally, but definitely body-builders. So, actually, and this is why people talk about adding in glycine-rich proteins, more organ meats and more skin and bones to buffer the methylene and make sure that process works better.
Matt: You’ve got to get yourself a bargain bucket then.
Keris: No! (laughing)
Matt: All that skin.
Keris: All that skin. (laughing)
Matt: Crispy skin.
Keris: Stop it. (laughing) So what you could do is take about a gramme of glycine a day to help kind of buffer that. Or you can do collagen powder. So collagen powder is good for glycine. So you can put that in peppermint tea at night, that’s going to help, so that glycine is going to help with the GABA, it’s going to help to buffer methylene, and also it’s integral amino acid in joints. So, if you’re prone to tendinitis or hyperextension, people say to take the collagen powder for that reason as well, and help the, make sure you’ve got the constituents for good tendons and good joint tissue.
Keris: So, I’m a big fan of glycine generally and you can either buy it as an amino acid and take a gramme a day, or just get more collagen powders into, you know I put them in chocolate. Basically, I melt chocolate and put everything in. I put protein in there, I put glycine in it.
Matt: So, it’s quite worked out.
Keris: We’ve got three flavours in the fridge at the moment. We’ve got mint choc chip, which is quite nice, that’s chewy. I actually put some collage and so phospho-lipids in there to emulsify it. I know, it’s a long story. And we’ve got peanut butter and dark chocolate with pea protein.
Keris: I think it’s nice. You’re not so keen.
Keris: And then we’ve got another one which is like hard chocolate boule which is whey and pea protein and dark chocolate and vanilla.
Matt: That’s the one I think is probably similar ingredients to what, like, uh [inaudible 00:38:43]
Keris: No, that’s the peanut butter one [crosstalk 00:38:44]
Keris: I love making these little protein balls. And to be fair, it’s cheaper to make them than buying protein bars and you can just put your own ingredients in them. I make different flavours. It’s funny because I’ve honestly just developed a certain taste where I don’t mind the texture. I’m a bit like, it’s chocolate and it’s got some protein in it. Where as, you give it to my dad – what’s my dad’s favourite line?
Matt: “It’s a bit [inaudible 00:39:07], eh?” “It’s a bit [inaudible 00:39:07], eh?”
Keris: (laughing) And he can’t talk for about ten minutes after eating it, like (mouth noises).
Keris: Anyway, so glycine is also another one to consider.
Keris: Last couple of things that you might want to look at. Taurine, which is used a lot in terms of taurine, again another amino acid, and often recommended for, firstly for gut function, and helping with various different gut conditions like bacterial overgrowth, disbiosis, but has a kind of calming effect and can kind of support those pathways where you’re kind of bringing down the stress response. So we will recommend it often to people who train late at night. You can take them after football sessions, haven’t you? Because you really struggle to sleep after …
Keris: Football training finishes at nine at night
Matt: Well, to be fair, they finish just a bit after. So it normally finishes about quarter-past nine. By the time I’ve got home, it’s gone half-nine, and you know, I’m obviously dripping with sweat, so I have to have a shower. Then, you know, I try having a cooler shower, turning body temperature down a little bit. I try and have a carb-rich meal as soon after training as possible. You know, like, I normally make myself a smoothie, to be fair, because I don’t want to eat too heavy a meal quite late at night. So I do some berries, some whey, banana.
Keris: To be fair, anything that would give you an insulin response is going to help in terms of, well, you know this already, but it’s going to shut off glucagon and all the other stress hormones and cortisol, so whey is quite good for that.
Matt: Also, weirdly, going off track a little bit, but we’re also talking about me. (laughing) What I’ve started to do now is, where as before, normally the day after football, I need to get up pretty early. You know, like four, 4:15 in the morning. The first couple of times, I got really wound up because I was thinking, “Oh, I should really be asleep now. I should be in bed now. I’ve got to get up at this time and get this much sleep.” That actually, what I’ve found is better, is to just [inaudible 00:41:00] the same way. I’m going to shower. I’m going to have my smoothie. I’m going to brush my teeth. And then, I’m just going to chill for a bit, and I
Keris: Rather than force yourself to bed.
Matt: Yeah, and get really wound up. So then I’ll either read or I’ll watch a bit or really easy T.V. that kind of disengages brain, calms me down. And then I go to sleep.
Matt: So, but then at least then, it’s kind of like I’ve still got a calming pre-bed routine.
Matt: And, [inaudible 00:41:24] I will take taurine and magnesium as well.
Keris: Some people find taurine and magnesiumm together might be too much. You can get magnesium taurate as well, which is another version of. But some people find it together makes them grumpy the next day.
Matt: I was going to say, I feel like I’ve got to be OTT with it sometimes. I mean, it’s got me to sleep, but then it’s taken me a bit longer to get going in the morning. [crosstalk 00:41:48]
Keris: Do 20 burpees when you wake up instead. (laughing)
Keris: Yeah, so that’s a nice one to do. Again, brand for some of these …
Matt: That’s an interesting point you’ve made actually, because obviously, we’ve listed quite a few different things here. So, it’ll make sense in the [inaudible 00:42:04]. So, we’ll see increase the protein intake, you do across the day, right?
Matt: And obviously what we always recommend, try and get a variety of proteins in your diet through different sources. Poultry, oily fish, lean fish, red meat, dairy, tofu.
Keris: And some skin and bones.
Matt: Some skin and bone in there.
Keris: Anchovies and sardines are a good way of doing that.
Matt: Mmmmmm. Delicious! Get the anchovies down, yeah? My point is, you can do that across the day. Vitamin D supplementation, the sunlight exposure. Obviously, get out in the sun during the day. But take Vitamin D sup whenever. Most vitamin, you probably take during the day with your meals, it’s quite high in B vits, though which you recommend taking a bit in the evening.
Keris: Again, it’s kind of a bit contentious to be honest. Some people find B vitamins stimulate and some people don’t. I try and say you can have it with your afternoon snack, as your last serving of it. Because a lot of good ones are split across two or three servings.
Matt: Okay, because obviously the others you’ve mentioned have more of a calming effect, like taurine.
Matt: I’m assuming you wouldn’t recommend those three taken during the day, or does it not matter so much? [inaudible 00:43:13]
Keris: Yeah. I was going to say I think your best bet is to try. I’ll take a bit, like half a gramme of lysine here and there, and it doesn’t really have an effect on me. We’ve talked about this before when we’ve said, what has the big effect on the general activity we’re doing? If I’ve got to sit and do an accounts spreadsheet or something like that, then I won’t take it. I know a lot of things that can give you energy as well, and they don’t if you’re [inaudible 00:43:36] I think it really depends on your day, and if you’re trying to buffer – say you were having a panic attack. I mean, my first thing would be, you should bring your blood sugar levels up. So to eat would actually be quite beneficial, because if it’s an adrenaline-based one, eating is going to spike insulin which would therefore counter the adrenaline if that makes sense.
Keris: So even eating something like a banana would be beneficial at that point in time. And then doing things like deep breathing, that’s so powerful in terms of stimulating vagus nerve which is going to kind of shut off “fight or flight” So, breathing four seconds out, four seconds in. Some people say, go and put your legs up the wall. Apparently, same thing. It’s just like [inaudible 00:44:15] with your legs up the wall
Matt: It’s true.
Keris: So these things are going to have a more immediate effect if you’re feeling anxiety, as in really quick, fast anxiety if that makes sense. And even, I’m big fan of music and comedy, change your environment. Completely, quickly change your environment. Pick up the phone and call somebody and you’ll be doing that. If you are kind of like, “Oh, I’m in a stressful job.” I’d probably try something like glycine, try something like, [inaudible 00:44:43] to be honest, and try a little bit of taurine. See how you are. If it’s clumping you, it’s going to be something you do in the evening to help you sleep.
Keris: Passion flower is actually quite a good one in terms of, you can get passion flower tea, or passion flower tincture that you can drop one to the tongue and passion flower does the same thing. It enhances GABA. We haven’t really talked about adaptogens, but adaptogens are your herbs that do a very similar thing. So the way that we used to say adaptogens were working was kind of balancing or modulating all these neurotransmitters and hormones, but actually, I think – from what I’ve heard and this is more kind of what my big geek crush Bryan Walsh says – it’s probably more working on the immune system. Because the immune system is having an impact on brain function as well.
Matt: Which [inaudible 00:45:30] the main protein supports.
Keris: It does
Matt: It’s so wanky together!
Keris: So, in terms of adaptogens, some people will take ashwaganda. Then there’s Siberian ginseng, Panax ginseng. Panax is kind of like, if it’s really, really serious stuff and you need some stamina. Siberian is again, can kind of can pick you up a little bit. Rhodiola give you, again, kind of stamina to get through periods of stress, give you more endurance. It’s used by athletes. Mushrooms are actually used quite a bit as well. As in cordyceps, reishi, they can be used again for helping, too. What they’re doing is modulating …
Matt: Not chestnut mushrooms, then?
Keris: (laughing) No. I though were saying magic mushrooms.
Keris: [inaudible 00:46:12] DoTerra is a company that I’ve used. I’ve used them a lot with my dad when he had his cancer because he didn’t have chemo, so I just kind of worked on his immune system in the background and [inaudible 00:46:22] DoTerra have some specially for oncology, for cancer therapy. Then they’ve got these nice versions of their products, which are just like smoothie powders which have got cordyceps in or reishi or they’ve got sprinkles to put on food. So, you can use medicinal mushrooms as another options if you’ve got a long period of anxiety that’s work-related stress, or you’re moving house, or maybe because it’s summer holidays and you’ve got kids at home. Whatever it might be.
Matt: [inaudible 00:46:48] to mention. I know we’re kind of talking about your mental state here, your anxiety, mood, et cetera. I mentioned in the beginning that there’s different levels of this. There’s different root causes, et cetera, et cetera. But like you’ve just said, then there’s also sometimes it can be quite acute to the situation at hand. Like you’re saying, be it the summer holidays and you’re finding everything a bit high-pressure, and you’ve got the kids there and they’re running riot. And whatever.
Keris: Yeah, yeah.
Matt: Or, you’re at work and it’s just, you know some people with their jobs some times of year are just much busier than others. It’s longer hours, it’s more stressful, it’s less sleep. It’s blah blah blah. You know, so, it could be a case of, based on your experience and being like, “Ah, you know, this time of year it’s how I tend to feel, it’s what tends to happen.” You can take some of this onboard for some of those periods. It’s not like you necessarily have to be …
Keris: … a victim of it or …
Keris: … Or vulnerable to that sort of situation.
Matt: … or that all these things need to be included all the time.
Keris: No, no, no. The best thing you can actually do is pulse, and I think they’re more effective and I’m sure if anyone looked at studies. Pulsing nutrients is more effective because they say, taking supplemental antioxidants for example, means the body might deregulate natural production of antioxidants. So, again, you’ve got to pulse it every now and then. The same thing with adaptogens, those kind of things. You don’t want to be, it’s not about suppressing. One thing that just occurred to me that we didn’t really mention – the frequency of meals and going without food. That kind of thing.
Keris: So what I tend to see over the summer is a lot of my clients who have families go off for the day and it’s all about sorting out the family and planning the family and planning these amazing meals for kids. And the moms don’t eat. Or the parents, some show us they don’t eat and they’ll fast for long periods of time. And that just means that gradually blood sugars might be dropping. If you haven’t got nutrient stasis, you might not be great at fuelling yourself for that fast state. So as the blood sugars drop, you can’t run some of the processes and therefor we get maybe be glucagon, adrenaline all that kind of stuff and that’s when hangry is the typical term. And that can last. And then you eat, but you’re so angry.
Keris: It’s that agitative mood or that bad mood or just the fatigue and things like that. Sometimes you can miss the low-hanging fruit which is you’re not eating regularly enough for the activity and stuff that you’re doing. As I said, this is what I see with a lot of parents is the kids all get fed, and they go and have an ice cream or they go and have a latte and these kind of things will quick hit, and then the blood sugar levels are going to drop again. Keep an eye on that kind of stuff because that’s going to affect your mood so much, add in screaming kids and it’s no wonder people flip. It’s nothing to do in methylation, it’s nothing to do in genetics, to do in glysine. Thos things feed in. So that’s what I’m saying about, you get the basics in place, but like you said, it might be that you take a nice adaptogenic formula over the summer. Viridian’s got some nice ones. TerraNova.
Keris: Just as another example of this, I’ve tried some of this stuff on my mum in terms of … I got her this one called, I think it was Thrivagen which is like a mixture to try to help her balance her hormones and her mood health. She’s like, “Well, I’ve got no energy. I think it’s my thyroid.” This, that and the other. And she kept going “This Thrivagen don’t work.” Just, like, you know. And I was like, “Mum, you do also need to do some exercise and eat a little more veg I guess it’s not a miracle. It doesn’t make you thrive.
Keris: Last thing I was going to say on the supplements side is that quite like phosphatidylserine as well, in terms of, it’s a … phosphor lipids are, again, fundamental for lots of things. Some in brain health, but also lots of the neurotransmitters are wrapped in a phosphor lipid sac and phosphatidylserine is, again, kind of used a lot in terms of cognitive function. Phospholipids are used all over the body, but certain ones in certain places. And lots of clients have said they feel they can focus more, they can concentrate better. Should get you some actually.
Keris: Phosphatidylserine -that’s quite a nice one to take across the day, but again one thing I always say is, when I was training as a nutritional therapist. I went into clinics with a fellow student and we have to do each other as a client practitioner. I’ll always remember the guy I was working with. He was really nice and he said, I told him my case, I was like, “I’m stressed and not sleeping to well.” He recommended this formula called Zen, it’s not actually around anymore, but it was phosphatidylserine along with some of the other nutrients we’ve talked about and some other stuff in there, amino acids. No effect whatsoever. Because at the time, I was studying for exams. It’s pretty help for the focus, but that wasn’t really my problem. The problem was we were just about to invest our life savings into a book and I was so nervous that it was, were we going to sell one copy? No amount of Zen was going to help that.
Keris: So, as long as you know all of this stuff and you can pulse it and buffer. There will be phases, and what’s really important is that you don’t let it continue for long periods of time. If I continue to do that high-risk behaviour, like putting all my life savings into stuff, it’s going to hit my health at some point.
Matt: Yeah, and we always say, you’ve got to look at the bigger picture. You know, like, you can use supplements, there Keris’ obviously just listed some here that she recommends. And they can supplement your nutrition, your lifestyle. It’s not a magic formula. It’s not going to work in isolation. You need to get other things in place, lay the foundations, et cetera, et cetera.
Keris: One more to mention actually that popped up on my radar. Again, thanks to Bryan Walsh, was St. John’s wort. It actually came up, he was talking about it in its capacity to detox, so in liver health. It supports all the phase of detoxification from all the different, basically three or four phases, to breaking down of toxins, making it able to be more soluble, whatever, and then worked out of the cell and then excreted by the body. St. John’s wort is beneficial for all of them. And St. Johns’ wort, you’re not allowed to take it with a lot of medications or the concept pill because I think it would maybe possibly detox it too quickly, so it doesn’t have the desired effect. It’s been used for, I don’t know actually, I think hundreds of years for mood health. So, it’s just one to consider. However, I would say, do that under practitioner guidance. [crosstalk 00:52:57] Some people say it’s a little bit, it can have the opposite effect.
Matt: But in general, across the board, if you are on a lot of medications and stuff, or if you’re on any medication …
Keris: Definitely work with a nutritional therapist.
Matt: Definitely work with a nutritional therapist when it comes to anything, adding supplements, and et cetera. Don’t just take things willy-nilly. Whatever. Be cautious. Just do it the right way. So you’ve got peace of mind, et cetera, et cetera. So, nice one Keris. So clever! So beautiful!
Keris: Oh, thank you! So we didn’t hit 45 minutes, but we’re under an hour.
Matt: We’re under an hour [crosstalk 00:53:33] there’s a win in there somewhere.
Keris: We’ve got to say bye in 20 second.
Matt: Guys, hope you enjoyed the episode. And we sill see you over in episode 100 … Can’t believe we’re in the hundreds now. Finally. Hundred and four. Awesome. See you then. Bye!