We discuss the latest scientific research regarding detoxification including:
- Are toxins really a threat to health
- Does the human body store toxins.
- How to know if you’re toxic
- The food, lifestyle habits, and supplements that support detoxification
- How yo-yo dieting increases toxin exposure
- What can actively inhibit the detoxification systems in the body
Listen below or head to iTunes for the full episode.
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Our discussion includes –
Read the full transcript below:
Matt Whitmore: How are we doing guys? This is Fitter Food radio, episode 106. Of course, I’m here with the amazing Keris as always. Today, we do have a guest on the show. Some of you may have heard of this guy. I here of him a lot because Keris quite simply can’t stop going on about him at the minute. All good things though. We are very, very pleased to have Dr. Bryan Walsh on the show today. Hello Bryan.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: Hey, how’s it going?
Matt Whitmore: All the way from, where are you in the states again?
Dr. Bryan Walsh: Maryland currently but I don’t think we’re going to be here very much longer. It doesn’t matter where we are. I’m in Maryland though.
Matt Whitmore: Oh, okay. Where, my geography is terrible. Where in the states is that? Is that east? West?
Dr. Bryan Walsh: That’s just right above Washington DC.
Matt Whitmore: Oh, okay. Cool, nice.
Keris Marsden: The home of the cookie. That’s the line I know.
Matt Whitmore: Oh, the Maryland cookie.
Keris Marsden: Yeah.
Matt Whitmore: As I say, Bryan Walsh is kind of Keris’ hero right now so I think she’ll do probably a better job than Bryan himself with introducing him. Keris, why don’t you give the-
Keris Marsden: Okay, so first of all, I came across you Bryan through Tommy Wood. You talk about him. I actually approached Tommy and said, “I feel so, kind of, confused and overwhelmed at, kind of” … I’m a naturopath and I study function of medicine but there’s always just so much kind of conflicting information going on when you’re trying to do all this stuff. Also, with the function of medicine, all the testing, all the supplements, it just felt like … I practised about four years. A lot of stuff, I was kind of distrusting some of the processes and it’s a lot of supplement selling, that kind of thing. I said to Tommy, “I feel like I need to know biochemistry than I do.” He put me, kind of, on your radar and your courses. They’ve just kind of transformed how I practise and also just my understanding. I’ve been able to, and I know you’ve kind of, when you introduce yourself, you can talk about how you tried to brig the gap between what we’re doing as nutritional therapists, function meds, and practitioners, and kind of mainstream medicine.
I work really closely now with a lot of GP’s and doctors. I ask for tests that they acknowledge and recognise and are validated. It’s just made my whole approach with clients, firstly, so much easier because we all work together. Yeah, I’m grateful. Your courses are absolutely phenomenal. I really hope that anyone listening, if you’re a personal trainer or a nutritional therapist, naturopath, that you check out all your courses because, for me, I was really transformed. I’m so much more confident in the processes now and what supplements I recommend. You always have an amazing ability for repeating something over and over again that is really difficult to get your head around. I usually get it by the third or fourth time, which I’m so relieved that you do that in your teaching process.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: Well, I appreciate that greatly. What you just said is the exact reason why I do that. I try to create information that I wish I had when I was getting started, that would have made my life so much easier having known and understand certain things. I’m really glad to hear that. Thanks, that’s really kind of you to say.
Keris Marsden: Well, I now teach [inaudible 00:03:07] and do a really similar thing, just not on the same level as you. You’re on another level but I do, I kind of say, it simplifies things if you know the physiology and you know [inaudible 00:03:15]. Again, that’s something that you and Tommy talk about a lot. Yeah, I’m really grateful because it has simplified everything for me because I don’t have to go down these rabbit holes all the time. It’d be really nice if you introduced yourself in a bit more, though. Talk about your background and how you ended up in this position, and how you know what you know, and why you decided to develop the courses, which are-
Dr. Bryan Walsh: Sure, yeah, yeah. I started out as a fitness professional, quite honestly. I was for the same reasons that most people do, I loved exercise. At the time, I was a heck of a lot fitter than I am now and that’s mostly because of five very young children that occupy all of my time. Yeah, I did that. Then, I was really into orthopaedics and corrective exercise. I became a massage therapist. I’ve always loved nutrition and how that works. Even as a kid, I would buy nutrition books, believe it or not, and read about it. Then I had clients that were asking me about nutrition, those kind of outside of my scope a little bit as a personal trainer and a massage therapist. Then I looked into naturopathic medicine. That was the great degree that was sort of an umbrella and combined all this stuff, nutrition and herbs and homoeopathy. We learned some chiropractic techniques. A little bit of acupuncture.
Then I became a naturopath and I met my wife there, it was the best part of naturopathic school. I got out and it didn’t take long, I was seeing patients and I didn’t know what the heck I was doing. I was looking at blood chemistry, it started with blood chemistry. I was looking at these labs that I had learned about. I was just, I’m embarrassed to say but I would just kind of stare at them not really knowing what I was pretending I knew what I was looking at. In my head, be like, “I have no idea what any of this means. This is horrible. This patient is coming to me for me to help them and I don’t know what I’m doing.” It all started, I’ll never forget, it started with the marker albumin. I thought, “Well, what is albumin?” I never really learned what this is. I read everything there was to know about albumin. I felt so empowered by this that then I went on to another marker and another marker.
What I realised was is that the more one, from a clinical perspective, knows about physiology and biochemistry, everything else makes sense. To me, it was like the Keanu Reeves movie, The Matrix. You can take the blue pill or red, whatever it was. The second that you take that pill, nothing ever looks the same again. The more I learned the basic stuff, the basic science, that I could go and listen to a podcast or read an article or read a scientific paper or go to a seminar and I knew enough to know when somebody was wrong, for example. I got hooked. I can’t stop reading about the subject. There’s never any lack.
Where I am today is I’m a naturopath. I have five kids, all 10 and below, the most amazing woman in the world is my wife. What I do, clinically, is I try to combine the best of this functional, nutritional, alternative medicine with conventional medicine because what I found is conventional medicine, thank God they do what they do. We know so much about the body because of western science. Where conventional medicine misses things, they’re great at finding cancer and diabetes and cardiovascular disease, but if it’s not any of those things, then they kind of get stuck. They don’t think of leaky gut or gluten sensitivity or candida infections or toxicity. On the other hand, excuse me, what functional medicine does really well is all that stuff. They will find a food sensitivity in every single person that walks through their door. They’re not good at looking for things like cancer and cardiovascular disease.
What I try to do is combine the best. We’re really all on the same team, kind of going the same direction just doing it in slightly different ways. I try to be a bridge between the two. I think what functional medicine does is great, but we have our limitations. I think with conventional medicine does is also great, equally as great, but has limitations. If we can combine those, the two efforts that both camps are making, I think we can ultimately help people more. That’s kind of where I live as a practitioner, I suppose.
Matt Whitmore: I mean, would you say, because over here in the UK, I’d probably say in recent years there’s definitely been much more of a cross over, hasn’t it?
Keris Marsden: Yeah, definitely.
Matt Whitmore: Between function medicine practitioners, GP’s, et cetera. Over here we’ve got the likes of Dr. [inaudible 00:07:36], I don’t know if you’ve heard of him.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: Yes, I’ve sat down with dinner one time, actually.
Matt Whitmore: Oh, yeah. There you go.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: Yep.
Matt Whitmore: You know, he’s played a huge role in linking the two. He’s been on TV. He’s a great ambassador for it. There’s definitely that crossover starting to happen here, which is fantastic. Are you seeing a similar thing in the states?
Dr. Bryan Walsh: Oh, absolutely. I think that that’s probably, that’s happening to different degrees. It is happening, I’ll just say, in industrialised countries. It’s happening in India. It’s happening everywhere. I think that it’s because at some point, conventional medicine, they have to realise their limitations. This person is genuinely not well, they don’t fit it any of our lab tests as to diagnosing them with something that we can actually diagnose them. We need to start looking elsewhere. The other bit, which I think is great is the number of published scientific papers now over the past decade showing that nutritional medicine, or that even just nutrients, that works. That shows, and here’s what I like, is herbs have a really long history, they go back thousands of years. It wasn’t until recently that we were able to look at specifically how they work in the body, mechanistically.
Essentially, what’s happening is western medicine knows the pathways or, sort of, alternative medicine has these herbs that have worked for certain things for a really long time. There’s no doubt that it worked. Now, they’re coming together and saying, “Oh, that herb worked on this because here’s where it works in this pathway.” It’s difficult at that point to argue that this isn’t working. You have the evidence that it works. Now we know the pathways that it works. That’s the, well that’s a good way. Western science uses science and these pathways, that’s their language. For us to have a conversation with them, well I’ll put it this way, you guys are in the UK. Let’s say you went to some foreign speaking country. The better you knew their language, the better you would be accepted and incorporated into their culture.
Well, conventional medicine is not going to come searching out us. This is what really motivated me when I first started is I wanted to speak their language. Their language was biochemistry. Their language was physiology. Their language was the scientific literature. Instead of saying, “Hey, magnesium is really great for this,” or, “Flax seeds are awesome for this,” is to learn their language so that I could talk to them and convince them in their language that this stuff is legitimate. I think that that’s happening from a much larger scale, simply because certain things can’t be ignored anymore.
Keris Marsden: Pretty great, actually, I write a lot of detail and put references in, but I also … When I denounce why I want testing and why, it’s always kind of there good chemistry. I’ve actually had really positive select dialogues with them where as before, not that I wasn’t getting that but, you know, talking about cholesterol was a little bit of a grey area. I just kind of gave up on that. Now I know I can kind of get certain markers via, sort of, complete blood chemistry which is so insightful. A few of them have written back and said, “You know, we really want to know what you’re doing. It looks really interesting and seeing positive results in the clients, as well.” Someone wrote back and said, she was actually trying to fall pregnant and just kind of doing the basics. Some of the stuff that we do through food and nutrition and some supplements, they kind of said, “Don’t know what you’re doing but all your fertility markers are improving so much.” I was kind of asking her to test FSH, LH, and all those kind of things.
Because we kind of entered into that common ground, there’s now a mutual respect that’s kind of developing. I was just going to ask, how long do you think it will take, I’ve just done your glucose course which is, again, phenomenal, so interesting. How long do you think it’s going to take before some of that information filters down into mainstream medicine in terms of-
Dr. Bryan Walsh: It takes a long time. It takes a long time for it to even go into functional medicine, quite honestly. It just, it’s because … It depends on the paradigm that currently is in place and how dogmatic people are holding on to that paradigm, if that makes sense.
Keris Marsden: Yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: You know, if all of a sudden you say, “Well, the role of insulin is not to get glucose in the cells,” that’s dogma right now. To undo that is going to take some serious convincing. Let’s look at, you brought up cholesterol. You didn’t even attempt that because it was, that’s so embedded into the psyche of western medicine and conventional medicine that to undo that is a huge, huge undertaking. That’s a really good model that just tells you how imbued we are in this thought processes surrounding cholesterol. Even in the general public, they’re more concerned that there’s kind of a joke that you can run a test for HIV and cholesterol on a patient, and then they’ll come in and they’ll want to know the cholesterol marker. They’re like, “What’s my cholesterol?” That’s obviously, that’s … It’s kind of like guys in the gym. Like, how much can you bench press? For some reason, that is the-
Keris Marsden: Marker-
Dr. Bryan Walsh: The benchmark for how strong somebody is regardless of the fact that it’s pretty much meaningless compared to other lifts. I think that there’s a cert ain amount of dogma that just exists. It’s hard to undo. You touched on it perfectly. What you basically said, what I was saying is you learn how to explain their language. You looked at their bio markers on a blood chemistry test, you know the physiology of it so that now you can have a conversation with them. They go to science. If you can present a couple papers to them, like bilirubin is a classic one. Low bilirubin is a problem. It’s a marker of oxidative stress. It’s an increase risk of mortality that all you need to do is say, “Here’s bilirubin. Here’s how it works physiologically,” which makes sense to them as a marker of oxidative stress for lipid peroxidation. Then show them the papers and then all of a sudden they’re like, “Well, you know what? You’re right. Now, from now on, every time I see a bilirubin that’s a little bit low, I’m going to consider that as a problem.” You just convince them because you spoke their language. That’s how I think these things will get incorporated. In terms of how long it takes, it just, like I said, it depends on how dogmatic people are about a given topic.
Keris Marsden: Do you get a lot of doctors approaching you for training or doing your courses? Or are you not, I suppose you don’t really know what the profile necessarily is of people that are doing your-
Dr. Bryan Walsh: You know, I do. I mean, I think I’m a pretty low key, kind of humble guy. I’m still-
Keris Marsden: Too humble, by the way.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: I still marvel at the fact that, no kidding, I will get an email from a medical doctor in South Korea that’s like, “I love your stuff. Your videos are so good, thank you so much.” Or, like, a pharmacist in India or Pakistan or Argentina or wherever. I just, I can’t believe that what I have to say and how I say it is helping so many people. It depends on the country, I think, to some degree. I do find that conventional medicine, I don’t want to say … I’ll say healthcare providers, tend to be more open minded outside of the US in my experience. Here in the US, I think it’s more chiropractors, nutritionists, naturopaths, fitness professionals. Yeah, I get these emails and it’s humbling, it’s really humbling to know that some doctor in South Korea is watching these videos. It’s informing how she’s seeing her patients. It’s kind of cool.
Keris Marsden: Really cool.
Matt Whitmore: We said we were going to talk about detoxification today as a kind of subject.
Keris Marsden: You requested it, didn’t you? Matt said, “I want to talk about detox.”
Matt Whitmore: I thought, why don’t we kick off with, because obviously detox is, Keris and I were talking about this the other day, the word detox is a bit of a buzz word. It’s marketing spiel and people just write detox on anything. The detoxing industry is no doubt grovely worth billions. You get detox teas, smoothie-
Keris Marsden: Juice fast.
Matt Whitmore: Juice fast, et cetera, et cetera.
Keris Marsden: There’s even functional medicine versions of those we here you have the detox drinks, which we have done-
Matt Whitmore: The medical shakes-
Keris Marsden: And Matt hated with a passion, didn’t you?
Matt Whitmore: Yeah.
Keris Marsden: On day five, went out and had steak and chips.
Matt Whitmore: Damn right. I thought, why don’t we start off with some of the myths that are kind of out there taking people’s money in that if they buy this product and drink these juices or whatever they may be, you know, whatever the potion is, it’s going to lead to weight loss, fat loss, you know, socrative healthy liver, et cetera, et cetera? Why don’t we put some of those to bed from the off? What are kind of the most irritating ones?
Dr. Bryan Walsh: Well, yeah, to do so I think what I’ll do, if it’s all right, is tell you the story of how I even started down this path in the first place. The honest answer is I have been aware of all those things that you were just saying for a very long time, even before naturopathic school. I read the books that said you’re going to die because your toxic and you can be toxified. These things are all polluting us. All these things and I believed in it. What happened was there was a colleague of mine that was describing a portion of detoxification, specifically phase three, and we can briefly talk about that in a little bit. I was talking about phase three based on what this detox expert was saying phase three was. It didn’t jive with what I thought it was. I thought, “Well, if this detox expert is far smarter than I am and is saying phase three is the thing, let me just go into the literature. Let me go into PubMed, let me look at what the science says phase three actually is.”
I went in with this open mind. A few things happened. You guys know how literature search does is, it’s kind of like Netflix. You watch one show and then they show you all these other great shows that you can watch based on this. You read one paper and that links to another paper, that links to another paper. Next thing you know, you’ve read a dozen papers. In this hour and a half, a few things happen. Number one, this detox guru was referring to phase three incorrectly. I have a problem with that because he taught this colleague of mine and she was referring to phase three incorrectly. Then it just passes down this massive misinformation. That’s a problem for me. I try not to do that as much as I can. It happens and I’m not blaming this guy. Another thing happened was is I realised that there was a phase zero detoxification. Never in my entire life had I ever heard anybody ever talk about phase zero. There was phase one, phase two, and phase three. That was detox. I thought, “Well, wait a minute. There’s a phase zero. How come I have never ever come across this ever in my career?”
Then the third thing that happened was I read a couple of papers, and this really blew me away, this was kind of the nail in the coffin, was I read about something that’s called a biphasic effect of certain nutrients or herbs or compounds. Basically what these papers said was certain herbs like Curcumin or whatever, at a low dose stimulated certain detoxification pathways. Then at a high dose, inhibited those exact same pathways. Then I sat back and I thought about it. I mean, I was like, “Wait a minute. What did I just read?” I thought about it and you guys just touched upon this, a lot of detoxification programmes have supplements, have powders or capsules that you’re supposed to take to help you detoxify. What’s in those is isolated, concentrated forms of these botanicals and herbs and compounds. I was like, “Well, wait a minute. If the amount in food stimulates detoxification and the amount that’s maybe found in these capsules inhibits detoxification, how can we even begin to say that these are detoxification programmes?”
When I read those three, A, that phase three was being talked about incorrectly. There was this thing called phase zero that I never heard about and that maybe what we were doing was actually blocking detoxification as an industry. I was like, “All right. Forget everything that I thought I knew, forget everything that I had taught people, quite honestly.” I was talking to patients about and I cleared out my brain, I cleared out off my desk. I started reading as much as I could. It took a few months and something like 300 papers later, I tried to answer exactly what you were just saying. I started from scratch. I was, like, well, I’ve heard we’re toxic. Are we really toxic? I have no idea. Let me look at what the literature says. We hear that this stuff is stored inside of us, right? Is that a myth or is it reality? I wanted to find out.
We would say that, you probably heard that the dose makes the poison. In conventional medicine they say, “Well, the doses that we’re exposed to is so low, it doesn’t cause problems. We have our own internally built detoxification system so it’s not a problem.” Was that true? Something in our industry we talk about is this synergist effect? Is there a synergistic effect of multiple exposures all simultaneously? Also, I had heard about how damaging these things were. I’m like, “Well, why? What are these toxins really doing inside of our body?” That’s how I started. Are we toxic? Does this stuff get stored? Can you even test for these kind of things? Then, after I have answered all those questions for myself, then my big question was, “Okay, what does the science say is the best, most effective, and safest way to … Is there a way that we can get rid of these things if they are?”
In terms of the myths, I can tell you irrefutably based on what I read, and I show in my courses in the actual papers, that we are exposed. There’s no doubt about that. You look at these, what are called large population bio monitoring studies of tens of thousands of people worldwide, industrialised countries and that we all have exposure. The next question is do they get stored? Irrefutably, I have tonnes of papers to show this, absolutely it gets stores in us, which is a bigger conversation. It turns out that the dose doesn’t matter. That a low dose of certain things cause just as much damage as a high dose. That there is a synergistic effect, that these do cause damage. Man, when you look at the studies that correlate certain chronic conditions with toxin, I call it toxin or xenobiotics or environmental pollutants, by exposure, there are some compelling studies that say that environmental pollutants might not just contribute to diabetes, but might even cause diabetes. It might cause obesity. It might cause dementia and Alzheimers and neuro developmental disease and infertility and PCOS and cardiovascular disease, hypertension.
That’s all, to get back, Keris, where you’re saying, this is in the literature. These poor conventional medicine doctors who are seeing 50 patients a day, don’t have time to be reading these things. It is absolutely in there. What I think some of the myths might be is that you can simply drink some, do it juice fast, and magically purify your body. It doesn’t happen that way. Or you-
Dr. Bryan Walsh: And magically purify your body, it doesn’t happen that way. Or you can do a colon cleanse and then I’m detoxifying my body. And what I came up with, if this is a good time for this, that there’s three things and I’m kind of a teacher at heart, so I like to try to teach people principles and then they can use. There’s three things, and this kind of speaks to your myths I think a little bit. There’s three things that must with a capital must be in place in order for anything to call itself a detoxification programme. So the first thing that it, because they are stored and there’s no question about this. Because they’re stored, you have to mobilise these things. You have to get these things out of the cells and into the blood in the first place. The second thing that you have to do is you have to make sure that the detox vacation pathways, which we can talk about, are optimised.
So it’s great that you’re flooding your body with these toxins and oh, remind me to touch upon fat loss as it pertains to toxin exposure in thyroid hormone and metabolism and all these other things. It’s mind blowing, But so you … if, let’s say we’re mobilising. Now these things are floating around in our bloodstream. Awesome. If we don’t make sure the detox pathways are running well, then so what? They just are swimming around in our bloodstream and they’re not getting detoxified. Then the third thing that must happen is you have to excrete these things. So the three things that are needed is you have to mobilise, you have to detoxify and you have to excrete.
So now saying that, going back to your question about myths, name the detox protocol or formula or thing, and tell me if it fits those three categories, like a foot bath that supposedly detoxifies the body, right? Does that mobilise anything? No, it doesn’t mobilise a thing. Does it improve detoxification pathways? Not that we know of. Does it help with excretion? I’m gonna say no because those things I think aren’t real, but one might say that will, will therefore a foot bath detoxifier and I’ll say no. How about a colon cleanse? Like a … or, or a colonic?
Keris Marsden: I was gonna say coffee enemas is very popular.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: Coffee … coffee. Okay. Shoving anything up your rectum and cleaning it out, does nothing for mobilisation and does nothing for … nothing, arguably for increasing detoxification. Maybe excretion, right? But if you don’t mobilise and detoxify first, then you don’t have as much to excrete. So then you could say, well how about a juice cleanse which are really popular. So a juice cleanse, you’re going to be hypo caloric, you’re not eating a lot of food, and that does increase mobilisation. If you go on a calorie restricted diet in every single mammal study ever done that I’ve looked at, your levels go up, period. So if you are on a hypo caloric diet, calorie restricted diet, then your levels did mobilise, great.
Does it increase detoxification pathways? Well, that depends on what you’re juicing. And in the literature there’s some suggestion that the things that people normally choose might actually inhibit detoxification. Things like carrots and celery and apples in a concentrated amount might actually inhibit. I’m not saying they’re bad, it’s all in context. Might actually inhibit detoxification. And the things that would enhance it, like Broccoli, brussel sprouts and cabbage, people generally aren’t juicing. So on a juice fast, you are … I mean, broccoli juice, that does induce. You are mobilising because you’re in a cat, you’re just drinking juice, you’re calorie restricted, you are mobilising, period. But are you increasing detoxification pathways? It depends on what you’re juicing. And then the third one is are you excreting? And the answer is if you’re juicing and you’re not getting the fibre and you’re on a calorie restricted diet and you’re not going into a sauna, you’re not actively excreting. So I would argue that a juice fast is not a detoxification programme either. So hopefully that makes sense for listeners to … as a takeaway. I’m not saying that mine’s the world’s best detoxification programme. What I want to say is here’s … if you want to evaluate whether drinking lemon juice in the morning is going to help detoxify.
Keris Marsden: That’s my favourite one.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: Or skin brushing, and I’m not knocking any of these things. It’s all in context. Lemon juice in the morning or skin brushes or colonics or juice fasting or whatever it might be. You have to look at those and try to apply those three principles and ask yourself, well is this increasing mobilisation? Is it optimising detoxification pathways and is it actively trying to excrete? And if it doesn’t fit one of those things, then I don’t, in my humble opinion, you can’t call that a detoxification programme.
Keris Marsden: My takeaway, listening to all the kind of principles you talked through, is actually some of these recommendations, juice fasting and [inaudible 00:04:35], are likely to do more harm than good.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: Oh totally.
Keris Marsden: Because … I mean, it might help the listeners … just to rewind for a second, when you said you looked at whether toxins are a problem. Whenever I talk about this stuff to kind of parents or grandparents … for their generation it hasn’t always been that way … because this is kind of relatively new. It’s kind of, you say about 50, 60 years in your presentation. So they kind of think we’re bonkers for worrying about all the rubbish in tap water or anything and, and you know, kind of talking about natural products and trying to avoid mercury, whatever it might be. And they’re just, you know, even my takeaway from your course was it’s still not enough. And you’re going to be exposed. So do what you can, but don’t sweat the details because the bigger wins are going to be made by some of the principles that you’ve talked through. But can you just explain how this has happened throughout history really? ‘Cause as I said, some people think we just kind of make it a big mountain out of a molehill.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: I guess the first thing you have to answer is what’s a toxin. That’s actually kind of hard to define quite honestly. For example, if our hormones are detoxified, in other words biotransformation, but our hormones are detoxified. Therefore are they toxic to the body? So there’s some grey areas to what a toxin is. Some toxins or we can call them xenobiotics or environmental pollutants have existed from antiquity. So there’s things off the periodic chart that we learned back in high school. You know, things like arsenic and things like mercury and lead and aluminium. Those are toxic in high amounts to the body. So those aren’t new. I think one of the bigger problems that we’re seeing today are these synthetic chemicals that really started to come about pretty much post World War II. And they, some of, some of the byproducts, I guess, if you will, after World War Two was over, they had all these things to use and so they started using them as pesticides because it killed pests. Well, pest are just small organisms. We’re a large organism, so, uh, but it wasn’t and it seemed fine. Hindsight’s always 20/20.
And also we make mistakes all the time as humans. It’s part of being human. There’s nothing wrong with it. Um, but it wasn’t until they had some fairly major exposures, like they’d have a spill for example, of some of these chemicals and people’d get really sick. But they said, well, maybe, you know, maybe these are a little toxic to humans too. So that’s really the history I guess, if you will. In terms of the number that are out there today and the pounds that are released, you know, per years. It’s kind of obscene. What is nice I will say is I think now there’s some recognition of this and we’re starting to see globally some attempts at trying to limit, you know that certain types or compounds or things that we’re exposed to. Although some of these things exist so long in the environment that once they’re there, they’re going to be there for kind of a long time.
Keris Marsden: And you kind of, you mentioned makes the dose makes the poison, which is a really good point to highlight because it’s almost inescapable when we agree on a daily basis we’re going to be exposed because they’re inside our house, they’re in our food, they’re in our environment.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: Totally. I’m glad you asked that. The one thing I want to make clear is that this is by no means a scare tactic. I hate fear based motivation, if that makes sense. It works for kids a little bit. You know, like, uh, if you don’t finish your dinner, then you’re not going to get dessert kind of thing. That’s like fearing that you’re not going to get dessert. It does motivate. But what this is not is we are all toxic. We’re all gonna die from this. We should freak out about everything. That is not what I’m trying to do. The way that I approach this is let’s say with 100 percent certainty there was going to be a tornado that ripped through your neighbourhood tomorrow. That’s just the fact. You could make the necessary precautions to protect yourself from it or you can just suffer from whatever it’s going to cause. I see it kind of as that, to be honest with you. That this is the reality. That when I looked at these 300 plus papers, we are all exposed. There’s actually very little that you can do about it. There are things that you can do to mitigate that a bit. So instead of using traditional cleaning products in your house, that there are some alternatives. And I’ll be really honest, they don’t work as well.
Keris Marsden: Yeah we get that feedback.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: No, it’s true. But so, but this is. But this is what I mean. So you take the steps that you’re willing to do. Or, or some of the natural care products, the cosmetics for example, you know, I heard a friend one time years ago say it. She said natural deodorant keeps you smelling natural. Meaning it doesn’t really work as well as the … as the real stuff. And if you’re cool with that then that’s fine. If you don’t want to stink, use the regular stuff. That’s totally fine. You know that … so I say this because I believe that this is just our reality. This is our reality of modern times. And people can do with that information whatever they want to. They can say, well forget it. I’m going to continue to eat and drink the water and use the products and all these things and that’s fine. But if people are interested in perhaps optimising their health a little bit that they might want to consider, you know, detoxification programmes. But a detoxification programme, I’ll go and say it, is a waste of time if you’re not going to try to stop the input coming into in the first place. I just talked to a guy recently down in Houston, Texas, these planes spray.
I don’t even know what but for mosquitoes down there because they’re so rampant. And he’s like, well, what can I do? I was like, oof, really? But if he’s not willing to then that’s fine. Again, that’s if a tornado is going to go through, you can either take the necessary precautions that you’re comfortable with or deal with whatever repercussions might might happen. So, so this is not meant as a scare tactic. We are all exposed. It does get stored in us. Where we live, how we live will dictate to some degree how much exposure we have and of what. If you remember from that course, there was one paper that looked at higher socioeconomic status individuals versus lower. They both had exposure. It happened to be to different things because of the way they live their lifestyle and whether they applied sunscreen or not, whether they used pesticides in their home garden or not or whether they ate fast food or not. But we’re all exposed. It’s just, it’s just the reality today. And again then with that information we can decide what to do with that.
Keris Marsden: Testing is quite popular again in kind of function medicine [inaudible 00:10:46] Testing for … urine testing or blood testing or can we tell if we’re toxic? We might take away what’s the point? We are. You know, and you’ve kind of analysed it from all the literature and the research. Anyway, but is there any tests that you kind of suggest doing or are you just like what’s the point?
Dr. Bryan Walsh: So that’s a bigger conversation that the short answer is yes, that there’s a blood chemistry software programme that I think is very useful, especially for … the cost is minimal. That’s the only one that I run. No, aside from that, there are a lot of functional medicine labs,
Keris Marsden: I’ve gotta stop you there Brian, which is available via nourish, balance, thrive. You’ve got to tell them where we can find it.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: That’s a whole other story on how it works and what it does. I mean that’s a whole other conversation. But no, I have not. Nor do I think I will ever run a toxic panel run by a functional lab because a, we have that blood chemistry calculator. But b, again, I try not to make up stuff myself. When I look to see what the scientific literature says and there are too many confounding variables that allow those tests, in my opinion, to be worth the money. And they’re are a few hundred bucks each. In addition to the fact the gold standard is considered to be a fat biopsy, which is highly invasive. It’s not available to everybody, but that’s when they basically take a needle, stick it in your fat cells and pull out some tissue and then evaluate the tissue for environmental pollutants. Even that has reasons why it’s not a great marker of testing for xenobiotic exposure. And the reason why is, you know, let’s say you and I both ran the exact same … or how about you two? You guys are in the same room, same environment, same life, saw you eating the same food. You guys both run a toxic panel, a toxin panel. Keris, you are on a calorie restricted diet. You time restrics feedings, so you only eat in a certain window of time and then you’re highly muscular but lean friends there. Is constantly eating, constantly in an anabolic state to keep his muscles big and strong and all these other things.
Keris Marsden: You pretty much nailed it. By the way there.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: And I’m not saying this is the case, but what might happen then is because you’re in that calorie restricted state and because that induces lipolysis and mobilisation of these toxins, your panel might come back really high. Like off the charts high versus if you’re somebody who’s eating all the time, then because they’re in that anabolic fed storage state might come back as normal. And so then the practitioner looking at both of your panels is like, you are toxic. You need to detoxify. You’re gonna die … like soon. If you don’t do something about this … and oh, you’re fine. So that’s a big problem with that.
Whereas you may actually have a lower what’s called total body burden because you’re constantly mobilising the using your health and you’re excreting them. Versus somebody else might be highly toxic, but it’s all stored and that’s not going to show up on the test. So for that reason … now I’ve seen the test. I think that they can be valuable, but like I said for myself, I would prefer to save the patients on a test that is questionable and the results that it’s going to give you and if there’s any question about how reliable it is, I don’t see the point really in running it. If that makes sense. So no, I don’t think that there’s a really valid test. We do use the blood chemistry calculator because it is data that gets put out at no extra charge as just a standard blood chemistry. And I will say this, I just put together a case of somebody who did two of these detoxification programmes and showed a really significant decline in just about every single toxin that’s shown on that panel. So. So that’s the only one that I run. I don’t know if that answers your question, but I don’t think there’s a good valid assessment.
Keris Marsden: I actually put both my parents test results through it because they both have cancer, they’re kind of varying stuff. And dad’s is a QB cancer so again will have to be more related to toxin exposure. And what came up on theirs was a lot of the health markers, they were kind of getting good wellness scores. Bit was toxic exposure, toxin exposure and the reason it was really helpful is my mom kind of … resistance to some of this stuff, but sometimes I think she’s just like, oh, that’s so good, dear. You know, you’re going to a college and learn these … She carries on painting the house without a mask. She loves decorating and upholstering and a lot chemicals involved in that. Like when they kind of saw their test results, my Dad’s kind of on board with it in his other cancer and he’s also very aware of the kind of roundup stuff which maybe we could talk about as well and he’s kind of switched. He was a gardener for years and used tonnes of that stuff and he’s really kind of said no more. That’s it done and he’s also the outsource separation, but it was really helpful for them to kind of see it and a big takeaway they’ve had is that they’re going to get a sauana at home and start sauna on a regular basis, but they are going to do your detox. They’re just waiting for a little window. They tell me like the 10 days to do it.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: Oh that’s great. And thanks for saying the sauna. I mean, that’s again, if somebody is like, I sauna every day. That’s great, but if you go back to those three principles, are you mobilising? Well, if you’re not in a calorie restricted state or time restricted feeding then no, you’re not mobilising. Is that optimising detoxification pathways? No. All it’s doing is trying to excrete via one route only. I didn’t include it in the course, but there was an interesting study done on mice. It would be horrible to be a lab mice in a future life. Well they took two groups of mice and they induced burns on one of the sets of mice. They injected them with certain chemicals in that they found that the mice that couldn’t because they had damage to their skin, couldn’t excrete via skin methods, uh, had an [inaudible 00:16:23] Much higher level of this toxin that they had injected than did the other group. So that speaks to why a sauna incidentally is so critically important in a detoxification programme as a major route of excretion. Anyhow, but yeah, so sauna is a tool, but if that’s all you do, you can’t say that I’m detoxifying because I’m in the sauna.
Keris Marsden: And one last thing, I’m sure I know the answer to this as well, but lots of people use hair mineral testing and say that that’s one of the … You’ve answered the question really, but just for people who considered it or have been handed a hair mineral test that shows they’ve got high aluminium or whatever, same thing I’d imagine, you’re kind of saying it’s not a true reflection of status or do you think there’s something there in …
Dr. Bryan Walsh: You know what, for the hair mineral test … what we have as practitioners is a bunch of tools. And tools are good for what they’re designed to do. So you would not try to hammer in a nail using a screwdriver, for example. Screwdrivers are great for screws. They’re horrible for cutting a board in half for example. A hair mineral test is a very interesting to us, I will say. But I think to say that somebody is toxic merely because of one single hair mineral tissue test is way too big of a stretch. You cannot say that. What you can say is, is they’re excreting a large amount of aluminium, but you can’t say that they’re loaded up with aluminium because of that. You’ve probably seen this, but you can have somebody that has low levels and then they start to get healthier and then all of a sudden the levels go up. They’re eating healthier, they’re not exposed as much, but all of a sudden aluminium, aluminium or mercury, goes up on a hair tissue tests. Then that’s an indication that maybe they weren’t toxic, but now their excreting … so no, just by itself, you can’t use that as the, as the test of toxicity. And that only looks at metals. It doesn’t even look at organic chlorines and nuclear PCBs and the phenol and all the number of other things there are.
Matt Whitmore: So Brian, going back a little bit, when you mentioned the deodorant thing, that was quite funny because I use probably a deodorant that was full of God knows what, but it does the job as … I’ve always said to carry a spot. You know I’m all for …
Keris Marsden: Make sure you have a client base essentially.
Matt Whitmore: Yeah exactly.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: The people around you, thank you for that.
Matt Whitmore: But I’ve got to draw the line somewhere, you know. I mean I’ll tell you, I had a conversation with someone once about um, some coconut oil that I recommended them. And I was like, I’ll get this coconut oil because we get a discount on it. And they turned around and said, yeah, the only problem is it comes in a plastic tub and I’m like, yeah it does. And they’re like, yeah, that concerns me because of the toxins in the plastic and this, that, and the other. And I was like, well, two days ago you went out and got absolutely blathered, had a kabob on your way home and smoked God knows how many cigarettes yet you’re worried about the toxins that are in the plastic of the coconut oil. And I think sometimes people get so wrapped up in these kind of these silly little finer details and neglects the bigger picture and kind of bigger wins and more kind of like low hanging fruit so to speak. So what would you say were kind of like bigger things people could do in terms of being … detoxifies rather than worrying about whether their cooking oil’s come in plastic or glass, etc.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: That’s a big question actually. I think the first thing that people should do actually is to decide what they’re willing to do in their life and environment to reduce their risk. So where does one work? Do you live in the city or the country? And each of those have … we live out more in the country and farmers spray all sorts of stuff around here. We’re on well water. We have a filter, but you better believe it that those pesticides are probably getting into our well water. Versus if you live in the city, then you have different types of exposures. Cleaning products are probably a major exposure. Cosmetic products that you’re putting literally on your skin will be a fairly large exposure. There’s things like plants that can clean the air and filters for water and organic food is likely better than conventional food or anything that’s even processed in the first place. You’re going to have organic cereal but that might have problems because it’s processed. It’s just to have …. take an inventory of themselves first of all and their life. And then decide what they’re willing to do and what kind of financial investment that might be. I mean, do you want to spend 200 bucks on a, on a reverse osmosis filter or you know, so. So that’s first. Because that will reduce your exposure. To that, I will say those three things that I talked about, if you want to be a detoxifier like I said, is one is you have to try to mobilise. And I think one of the easiest things would be to do time restricted feeding.
And to try to eat your food only within a six to eight hour window. Which, according to the literature helps promote metabolic flexibility and lipolysis and all these things so that you are in a fasted state at some point. You’re not constantly eating. But you’re in a fasted state and that should help with mobilisation exercise because it helps with lipolysis. It will help with mobilisation as well. Some of the best things that people can eat it turns out are the cruciferous vegetables and there’s some pretty good studies on those. So lots of things like brussel sprouts, cauliflower, broccoli, cabbage, garlic, onions, all those have been shown to help increase certain detoxification pathways. In terms of beverages, honeybush tea and rooibos tea, both in some rodent studies help increase certain detoxification pathways. And then the last bit for excretion, you have to make sure that you’re drinking enough water so you’re urinating enough. Sweating is phenomenal. Now you can sweat a lot.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: … urinating enough. Sweating is phenomenal. You can sweat a lot … I get some funny questions from people that do the course and don’t have a sauna. They’re like, “We have a really hot attic. Can I just sit up in my attic for a half hour?” If you sweat a lot, I don’t care what you do. It’s about sweating. Saunas are great because you can control it for a little bit. But if you wanna crank up your heat and put on a rubber suit and jump around a little bit and wanna sweat that way, go for it! Sweating is good.
But a major route of excretion … I guess I’ll briefly touch on this. Different toxins are excreted in the body in different ways. Some of them seem to be preferentially excreted via sweat and urine, for example. Other ones don’t. They don’t go out that way. In fact, instead, they go out via bile. Your liver makes this substance called bile. It gets stored in the gallbladder and then when you eat, it gets squeezed into your intestines. Bile tends to recirculate many times including what it’s holding onto, which can be the toxins. So, to take binding agents, which the easiest one is fibre, is … a lot of people nowadays are pretty deficient when it comes to fibre.
But in terms of every day detox, if you will, to do those things I talked about: mobilisation, calorie restriction, time restricted feeding, exercise, eating a lot of certain vegetables will tend to be helpful, possibly drinking those teas will be helpful if somebody just wanted to do this on a daily basis. And then in terms of excretion: make sure you’re sweating, make sure you’re urinating enough, and really try to increase things that will bind onto bile and pull it out of your body so that it doesn’t recirculate as much.
Keris Marsden: Tell us your thoughts on [inaudible 00:45:45] charcoal. There is actually products over here now … because I know you’ve recommend charcoal on the first part, as well. There’s a product over here now, that’s more [inaudible 00:45:56], which is a type of clay. I don’t know if you’ve seen any research on clay versus charcoal, in terms of binding.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: I didn’t include clay, because I didn’t find any studies on it.
Keris Marsden: Oh. That’s interesting.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: The whole reason why I included what I did is I wanted to have some justification for including it. So, things like Zeolite, I didn’t really see any good papers on Zeolite, bentonite clay, or any of the clays. I know it’s interesting because we can look at the properties of something outside of the body, in a Petri dish. That doesn’t necessarily mean that’s how it’s gonna work in the body. Antioxidants are a classic example of that. Antioxidants inside of a Petri dish, scavenge free radicals. They don’t do that in the body. That’s one of the bigger myths that currently out there. We understand the properties of clay and while it sounds good, I didn’t see any papers on it. I’m not opposed to it. I think that it’s fine as a binding agent, especially during the act of detox. I would be concerned with some of those things regularly because of how well that they potentially bind and therefore you’re not absorbing certain compounds that you would otherwise want to absorb. I didn’t include clay because I didn’t see any good studies on it.
Keris Marsden: One thing that you buy as a part of this detox is a spreadsheet for people to do their macro’s, their how to get in that [inaudible 00:47:18], calorie restriction, and then you give everyone protein target. Can you just talk briefly because if someone is doing juice fast, there’s zero protein in that, why you really emphasise the role of protein in-
Dr. Bryan Walsh: The reason why I did that … There’s phase zero, phase one, phase two, and phase three. Phase two, I’m not gonna say is the most important, but phase two is a big one. When people typically are deficient in some detoxification abilities, it seems that phase two is one of the bigger ones. There’s a number of different specific phase two detoxification pathways we could talk about, but those are very amino acid driven, and/or things that come along with certain amino acids. For example, methionine, methionine as a metho group, as a sulphur group, you need metho groups for one of the phase two pathways, you need sulphur groups for [inaudible 00:48:08] pathway. Glycine is an amino acid that’s relatively abundant in most animal flesh, that is helpful for another detoxification pathway.
I don’t know that everybody needs protein when they detoxify. It just depends on their nutritional status beforehand. So, if you take a vegetarian or a vegan, may be somewhat protein … and I’m not saying they’re bad diets, but may be somewhat protein deficient, or amino acid deficient in the first place. If they decide they wanna detox, then they may be severely limiting their ability to actually detox because they’re lacking certain amino acids. A lot of those phase two pathways are very amino acid driven. That was the primary reason for the protein consumption, in addition to the fact that, you don’t necessarily want it to be, for some people, a highly catabolic diet. So, it helps to maintain certain processes in the body.
Matt Whitmore: [inaudible 00:49:04] Bryan, you mentioned earlier about being [inaudible 00:49:09] caloric diet, some kind of calorie deficit. Assuming someone can be lean and still be pretty toxic, would that person still need to be in a deficit or would it just be a case of the restricted feeding when [inaudible 00:49:27]?
Dr. Bryan Walsh: That’s really interesting. I don’t have the answer for that. This is a generalisation, but generally speaking, the leaner somebody is, the probability of them less toxic is better. That makes sense. The research is conflicted on this to some degree. That’s not to say, ‘I’m lean, therefore I’m not toxic,’ because it can be stored in a number of tissues, including visceral adipose tissue of which somebody may be able to not pinch very much of subcutaneous, but they have a little bit of visceral. They can store it there, as well. They can store it in fat tissue anywhere. Again, that’s an over generalisation, but I find that people that are relatively lean have less storage and therefore are probably not as toxic as somebody who has some more body fat. In terms of your question, from what I understand that you’re asking is: Can somebody calorie restrict or time restrict feeding and then assume that they’re okay in that because they’re already lean?
Keris Marsden: However thin, as a person … so, he doesn’t need to drop the calories. [inaudible 00:50:31] time restricted [inaudible 00:50:33] a large part of your diet.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: I have a better way of answering this. This was a Rodent study again, so you have to take that into consideration a little bit, although there’s some evidence this also happens in humans. There’s one really interesting paper. They made mice do a yo yo diet. They did calorie restriction and then they did excess feeding, and then they calorie restriction and they did excess feeding. What they found is that, on the calorie restricted portion, that those unibiotic levels went up in their blood. But then when they ate, those unibiotics went into a different tissue, if that makes sense. Not that mice have love handles, but lets say it came out of the love handle fat and then when they eat it goes into some other fat somewhere else in the body. So, if you have periods of eating, you will have less mobilisation on lipolysis. But it’s sort of the length of lipolysis, so if you time restrict feed for six to eight hours, the time that you’re eating, assuming that it’s not calorie restriction itself and you’re probably in a state of mobilisation for that 16 hours, but then maybe less during those eight, depending on how much you’re eating. During the fasting mimicking diet, because it’s so low calories and so little protein, you’re probably still in somewhat of a fast state, if that answers your question.
Matt Whitmore: It does. Yeah. Because obviously when we talk about calorie deficits, we normally associate that with weight loss, with fat loss. So yeah, that does answer the question. My question was, if there was someone who didn’t want or need to lose weight, so therefore there was no reason for them to be in a calorie deficit [crosstalk 00:52:17]
Dr. Bryan Walsh: [crosstalk 00:52:17] so, that was a personal question. So, when you eat, you eat whatever calorie amount you need to maintain or stay in that anabolic state [inaudible 00:52:29] point of view, then you’d eat. You could eat that three thousand thirty-five hundred calories in that six to eight hour window, and then assume and hope that in the rest of that time that you’re in that state of mobilisation and lipolysis, if that makes sense.
Keris Marsden: [inaudible 00:52:43] complete take-away from that research, although it’s in [inaudible 00:52:46] at the moment, is that yo-yo dieting, as humans, doing all these, ‘Oh, I’m on a 12 week this diet,’ and then going all the way back. When that happens, is actually gonna worsen their exposure, would you say? [inaudible 00:52:58] inconsistent [crosstalk 00:53:00]
Dr. Bryan Walsh: I’m gonna be adding a bonus video coming up in the next hopefully couple weeks if I can get around to it. There are some extremely compelling and kind of frightening studies actually, suggesting that weight loss or fat loss in general actually increases the risk of things like cancer, like dementia, like cardiovascular risk long term, for this very reason, and the papers state this as the very reason, that because of xenobiotics exposure and accumulation, that if somebody in mid-life decides that they wanna lose weight, that they’re increasing their risk of things like dementia, which they have studies on this now, increasing their risk for things like dementia later on in life. The thought is because of weight loss that these things are now being exposed. To the point that … I know that in the fitness industry this goes counter to everything that we would like to believe, but that steady weight gain, and I’m not saying being obese, but steady weight gain throughout the lifespan decreases those issues, incidentally, which [inaudible 00:54:05]. I’m not gonna be fat when I’m eighty.
It’s not saying, be fat. It’s saying to steadily gain weight as you age is protective over these things. I’ll be showing these studies as a bonus video. But what they don’t talk about, and I think that thing that’s missing, the thing that I have some evidence of, is that if you do a well designed detoxification programme while doing a weight loss or fat loss programme, that you’re likely excreting these things and therefore limiting potential for some of those things to happen. This is mind boggling. Wait a minute, so fat loss increases your risk of these horrible things later on? The implications of this are horrendous, in my opinion. But the thing that they don’t talk about is that we can, and there’s some proof to this, we can detoxify the body when these things are being mobilised. Some of these papers even say that maybe we shouldn’t even have people lose weight because of these risks, which is again kind of mind blowing when you consider all these fat loss programmes and weight loss programmes and all these things.
I’ll just summarise it to say this: If I were to go on a weight loss or fat loss programme, I would not do it without supporting the detoxification pathways. Absolutely would not, because levels … every time you drop calories, in every mammal study, levels go up, period. As I just talked about the yo-yo diets, if you don’t get rid of those things, they stay in there and they can go in another tissue. For me personally … I’ve got a little bit to lose. I have five kids and they’ve packed the pounds on me for me. If I were, I would not do that without supporting detoxification at the same time.
Keris Marsden: It’s interesting that actually on your programme, supplements are quite limited, I would say, compared to what [inaudible 00:55:54] You kind of emphasise [inaudible 00:56:00] lifestyle wise or more nutrition wise and not doing-
Dr. Bryan Walsh: Supplements are mostly binders. If you are mobilising and you’re eating the right foods, and drinking the right things to help support detoxification pathways, you gotta get rid of this stuff. So no, I don’t have milk thistle in mine, which I know is sacrilegious in this industry when it comes to detox … or curcumin, or green tea, because the evidence … There’s no proof that they inhibit necessarily, but there’s a strong question about it. And if there’s any question about it, I don’t think it deserves a place in the detox programme.
Keris Marsden: [inaudible 00:56:33] and then [inaudible 00:56:34] at the same time, but [inaudible 00:56:36] St John’s-Wort [inaudible 00:56:40] St John’s-Wort is one I have not seen for years. Just [inaudible 00:56:43] is the only thing I’ve ever been [crosstalk 00:56:46]
Matt Whitmore: [crosstalk 00:56:46] isn’t it?
Dr. Bryan Walsh: Well, sometimes when you come up with something and nobody else is doing it, you start to wonder if you’re nuts. Because I’ve never seen St John’s-Wort with any detoxification programme. But as I talked about it, it’s probably the best studied botanical out there anywhere, solely because it is so potent at increasing detoxification of drugs. This is why it’s so … when I say it’s studied, I mean conventional medicine is studying this. It’s not these herbal folks. It’s conventional medicine saying: Here’s this herb that if you take this, increases excretion of medications. That’s what they’re interested in. If they’re giving a medication, they want it to stay in the body so it can do what it does. So they’ve studied well St John’s-Wort, and it absolutely increases the detoxification pathways.
That’s what I’m saying, unless I’m missing something horrible and [inaudible 00:57:51], it’s so known as a detoxification herb that conventional medicine has studied it like crazy. St John’s-Wort, in many cases, is the only herb that’s found in a pharmacology textbook as: Don’t take this with this medication. Some of them have grapefruit juice because that’s pretty well known to inhibit phase one. Some of the newer ones; pomegranate does the same thing as grapefruit juice. And it just depends on the text, but in some texts, St John’s-Wort is the only herb in there because if patients take certain medications and St John’s-Wort, they’re effectively taking a lower dose because they’re excreting it faster. That’s a detox herb, in my opinion.
Keris Marsden: I’ve bought all the supplements that you mentioned and they were all in our cupboard. Matt came to me one day and he was like, “Are you alright?” I said, “Yeah. I’m fine. Why?” He was like, “Why have we got St John’s-Wort in the cupboard? Are you depressed?” “No” I’d never seen it in that context before.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: Neither have I. That’s why I wondered if I was missing something, but everything I know about it, it deserves a spot there.
Matt Whitmore: Why don’t you tell the listeners where they can find out a little bit more about your detox programme.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: Sure. If they go to drwalsh.com, just d-rwalsh.com/detox, then there will be this little picture of me. Two links down below, one is for practitioners, one is for non-practitioners. I did two courses. I started with the practitioner version. That’s what I like. I like to teach practitioners. I think that’s way more fun. I like to try to help people through people, if that makes sense. I can train ten practitioners who each see ten people, that’s a hundred people that I potentially help. That makes me happy on the inside and sleep well. On the other hand, I know that some people don’t have access to practitioners, so I made a watered down, a non-practitioner version. It’s more watered down. I still have the scientific literature in there to back up what I’m saying. It’s four hours of video versus nine. It’s not nearly as technical, walks you through step by step what to do, for example, the practitioner version also contains the non-practitioner version, so you actually get both. Yeah. So that’s where they go and they can check out the website, see if either one works for them.
Keris Marsden: What other courses are you developing in the future? I know your wife kindly hinted that [inaudible 01:00:25].
Dr. Bryan Walsh: Well, we’re redoing things a little bit. My first course that I ever did years ago was, ‘Fat is Not Your Fault,’ we’re gonna add that to the website. That’s the starter course. That’s if somebody is a fitness professional and just wants to learn a little bit about a lot. It’s a little bit about [inaudible 01:00:42], a little bit about adrenals, a little bit about glucose regulation, gut dysfunction, toxicity, liver, mental, emotional, neurotransmitters. That’s all in one course. Then the next course will be level one, which is biochemistry, it digs a little bit deeper. The next course, which my wife is … She’s my slave driver, she wants me to have it done in the next two months, is level two, which will be functional; physiology … It’s like ‘Fat is Not Your Fault’ but kind of on steroids, so, just much deeper; kidneys, and how we make blood, all these different things. Level three, she wants done by the end of the year, and that will be all on blood chemistry. I have a mitochondria course that I just came out with, which has gotten some pretty good feedback. I have that glucose course you talked about. I may come out with a course on fatty liver, maybe adrenals, that’s kind of on the list. And then level four, eventually, will be on organic acid testing and maybe a couple other advance tests.
Keris Marsden: You’re gonna be busy.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: Oh my gosh. You have no idea. Yes, but it’s fun and it’s all for a good reason, so that makes it worth it.
Keris Marsden: Awesome. [inaudible 01:01:39] to get over here. [inaudible 01:01:42] courses. If you’re up for it, we’d definitely get you back on. You could do a whole one on the adrenal tea. That would be awesome.
Dr. Bryan Walsh: Yeah. There’s a [crosstalk 01:01:44]
Keris Marsden: [crosstalk 01:01:44]
Matt Whitmore: I was just thinking. We could probably get you back on for numerous different topics, to be honest with you. But no, Bryan, thank you very much buddy. It has been an absolute-
Keris Marsden: Oh, it was a pleasure.
Matt Whitmore: Pleasure to actually finally meet you, albeit virtually, because I’ve heard your voice in the background when Keris has been doing your course for the last, God knows how many months. But no, it’s been really, really interesting. Guys, thank you all for listening. If you have got any questions for Bryan, I’m sure there’s a contact link of some sort on your website. Feel free to reach out. If you have a enjoyed this episode, as always, share it with friends. If you haven’t left a review over on iTunes for the podcast, please do it because it really, really help us stay on those fancy charts. We’re back on the Hot what Spot list aren’t we?
Keris Marsden: Yeah.
Matt Whitmore: On Fitter Food Radio on iTunes, which is very awesome. Guys, thank you very much for listening. Massive thank you to Bryan Walsh. We will see you in episode 107. See ya.